xagent Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I use a Stag 3g model with 18" barrel, rifle length gas system, non-adjustable gas block, standard bolt group and buffer, with a DPMS Miculek brake strictly for 3-gun. I wanted to see if I can get the rifle to shoot a bit smoother, softer and flatter. The person at Stag arms said that I wouldn't see much of an improvement and they never tested the rifle with an adj. gas block when the designed it. Is it worth the money for me to put on one and tune it? Would I even notice a difference? Thanks for any opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Turning down the gas on a full mass carrier will give a little bit of benefit. Using a low mass carrier will give a little benefit. Using a different recoil buffer and spring will give a little benefit, changing the load will give a little bit of benefit. You AR has an operating system. That system needs to be balanced for the load, your hold, your comp and your barrel. You can toss parts at it and maybe make it better or worse. The vast majority of people are running a rifle with an operating system that is not well balanced and or over-gassed. Tuning gas is an art form all in itself, and the tune changes over time due to the erosion of the throttling method to control the gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockinator Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm running a Stoner comp similar to the Miculek with a adjustable gas block with a AR15 carrier group on a midlength barrel with a carbine buffer. It has little to no movement. A direct comparison to my son in laws gun which is a typical defense gun that runs a heavier M16 carrier and no adjustable gas block and a heavy buffer is this is half the recoil of his and at least half the movement. At 100 yards off a bag without holding down the front end I may have to reset the cross hairs about 1/4 of a inch. To answer your question more directly I do get less movement and it is very smooth and flat. I could probably reduce that if I went with a light weight carrier though. I hardly notice it now though so I didn't feel the added cost of the lighter carrier was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Oh, and just as an FYI, I won't run adjustable gas on a 3Gun match rifle and I can double clays at 40 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 What load are you running that allows for such heroic feats Mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Double clay?? Is that how they get Gumby and Pokey to stand? Time to get the old video going, I'd like to see that myself! I'd settle for a double in the head of a metric target at 40 yards with lets say a .18 split?? I think we could all agree that would be called a double. We talking off hand here, or off a lead sled? Edited October 23, 2015 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I'd settle for a double in the head of a metric target at 40 yards with lets say a .18 split?? I think we could all agree that would be called a double. We talking off hand here, or off a lead sled? That would make a good standard. Metric target at 40 yards, what is your split times for two hits to the head? Next time at the range give it a try and let us know the times. Offhand only please. It will give us some idea if our "shoots really flat" gun is working as well as we think it is. (I bet both me and my AR has a lot of room for improvement.) p.s. Not just and invitation to Mark and Kurt. I'm hoping for input from many others. Edited October 23, 2015 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I have witneses Kurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Then it should be real easy to film it and post it. Its the same old saw.....video or it didn't happen. Just frame it so we can see the target at the beep, come up double the clay so we can see it break. Piece of cake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Is that why no one believes in God, the foundations of our country, etc... Lack of video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 What? Are you kidding?There is all sorts of video! Charlton Heston was in a lot of them, the 10 commandments, Noah, etc. Heck even Mel Brookes had some video...history of the world part one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Is that why no one believes in God, the foundations of our country, etc... Lack of video? Mark, Are you asserting that asking for proof of the abilities you claim is somehow akin to questioning the existence of God or the intentions of the founding fathers? I don't know or even care if you can double a clay at 40 yards with your rifle or what that even means, but you are using your claim to support your long standing assertion that adjustable gas is bad. If you fire two shots from your rifle off hand into a 4" circle at 40 yards in .18 seconds how would this prove that fixed gas was superior to adjustable gas? There are just too many variables in the equation to draw causation from that single action. In my limited experience an adjustable gas system allows more flexibility in tuning than a fixed gas system. A fixed gas system can be made to operate just as well as an adjustable gas system, but within a much narrower band of circumstances. It is not any better or worse, just different. The answer to the original posters question would be no, it is not needed, but it may be desirable. If you will be shooting the sort of matches with very few long shots and lots of close paper, and nothing that demands any power, then go with a fixed gas and load mouse farts, adjust the gas by adjusting the powder charge, vary your spring rates and play with your buffer weights. If you shoot matches where it would be advantageous to have full velocity ammo then build with an adjustable gas block and choose your load based on your accuracy and velocity requirements, then tune the gas block to suit. Different ways to approach the same problem. Now if anyone could post a video of a large breasted lady wearing a 3 sizes too small bikini top shooting doubles I might reconsider my opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bacus Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 The person at Stag arms said that I wouldn't see much of an improvement and they never tested the rifle with an adj. gas block when the designed it. Is it worth the money for me to put on one and tune it? Would I even notice a difference? Thanks for any opinions. If they never tested it how would they know it won't be an improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I've got some video of EXACTLY what Steelhead wants from Gunners in Sturgis.....only she was doing double shooters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striped1 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Is that why no one believes in God, the foundations of our country, etc... Lack of video? Mark, Are you asserting that asking for proof of the abilities you claim is somehow akin to questioning the existence of God or the intentions of the founding fathers? I don't know or even care if you can double a clay at 40 yards with your rifle or what that even means, but you are using your claim to support your long standing assertion that adjustable gas is bad. If you fire two shots from your rifle off hand into a 4" circle at 40 yards in .18 seconds how would this prove that fixed gas was superior to adjustable gas? There are just too many variables in the equation to draw causation from that single action. In my limited experience an adjustable gas system allows more flexibility in tuning than a fixed gas system. A fixed gas system can be made to operate just as well as an adjustable gas system, but within a much narrower band of circumstances. It is not any better or worse, just different. The answer to the original posters question would be no, it is not needed, but it may be desirable. If you will be shooting the sort of matches with very few long shots and lots of close paper, and nothing that demands any power, then go with a fixed gas and load mouse farts, adjust the gas by adjusting the powder charge, vary your spring rates and play with your buffer weights. If you shoot matches where it would be advantageous to have full velocity ammo then build with an adjustable gas block and choose your load based on your accuracy and velocity requirements, then tune the gas block to suit. Different ways to approach the same problem. Now if anyone could post a video of a large breasted lady wearing a 3 sizes too small bikini top shooting doubles I might reconsider my opinions. Is that why no one believes in God, the foundations of our country, etc... Lack of video? Mark, Are you asserting that asking for proof of the abilities you claim is somehow akin to questioning the existence of God or the intentions of the founding fathers? I don't know or even care if you can double a clay at 40 yards with your rifle or what that even means, but you are using your claim to support your long standing assertion that adjustable gas is bad. If you fire two shots from your rifle off hand into a 4" circle at 40 yards in .18 seconds how would this prove that fixed gas was superior to adjustable gas? There are just too many variables in the equation to draw causation from that single action. In my limited experience an adjustable gas system allows more flexibility in tuning than a fixed gas system. A fixed gas system can be made to operate just as well as an adjustable gas system, but within a much narrower band of circumstances. It is not any better or worse, just different. The answer to the original posters question would be no, it is not needed, but it may be desirable. If you will be shooting the sort of matches with very few long shots and lots of close paper, and nothing that demands any power, then go with a fixed gas and load mouse farts, adjust the gas by adjusting the powder charge, vary your spring rates and play with your buffer weights. If you shoot matches where it would be advantageous to have full velocity ammo then build with an adjustable gas block and choose your load based on your accuracy and velocity requirements, then tune the gas block to suit. Different ways to approach the same problem. Now if anyone could post a video of a large breasted lady wearing a 3 sizes too small bikini top shooting doubles I might reconsider my opinions. Pretty sure Taran has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) I believe in God because of hope and faith.......the foundation of our Country because of what I was taught from both my parents and teachers in school. You sir.....I have NO faith in what so ever.........soooooo........post up a video, or retract your statements.......or what we like to call.....tall tales. Edited October 24, 2015 by TRUBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Warning, extreme thread drifting in record time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Oh, you say! I mean, come on...rifle.....carbine....oh......you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xagent Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Lots of good ideas, to follow up a bit I shoot 2 different match locations one has long range out to 500 yards the other is 100 max. I took a closer look at my gas block and was not really happy with the Stag Arms build. The non-adjustable block I have has two bottom screws for a dimpled barrel in which the barrel is not dimpled. It also has two additional screws on the sides. None of the screws were locktited in place and all of them were not very tight to barely still in there. This might help to explain some of the carbon buildup on the barrel where it contacts the block in one area. I just decided to spend the money and get a JP adjustable clamp on type. I think this might just help me out since I don't want to mess with the old block and give me the option to adjust the rifles gas. Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBOT5000 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I just had my first adjustable gas meltdown at my 3 gun match last weekend. I'm not sure if the rifle was too dirty or the ammo slightly weak but my JP turned into a single shot rifle and killed my match. I am now on board with the "F" the adjustable gas and I'm going to put it up for sale and get a stag arms 3G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) You guys realize that if you buy a adjustable block and decide you don't want to plan the tuning game, that you can just open it all the way up and effectively have a regular gas block, right? Spend the extra $25 up front and you can change your mind down the road. Edited October 29, 2015 by adamge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I just had my first adjustable gas meltdown at my 3 gun match last weekend. I'm not sure if the rifle was too dirty or the ammo slightly weak but my JP turned into a single shot rifle and killed my match. I am now on board with the "F" the adjustable gas and I'm going to put it up for sale and get a stag arms 3G. I will give you $20 for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) That is because of the ambient temperature change now that it is getting cooler in AZ. You have two choices: Adjust it for lower temp conditions and leave it there, or have a regular AZ weather setting, then another setting for colder weather. Easy to do with a click adjustable gas block like the SLR SA7, more of a PITA with a regular metering screw type block, especially if you loctite the screw. Don't sell the rifle, adjust the gas... Mick I just had my first adjustable gas meltdown at my 3 gun match last weekend. I'm not sure if the rifle was too dirty or the ammo slightly weak but my JP turned into a single shot rifle and killed my match. I am now on board with the "F" the adjustable gas and I'm going to put it up for sale and get a stag arms 3G. Edited November 1, 2015 by MickB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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