To Firing Pin Block or not to Firing Pin Block?

[EatsEverything]

Elsewhere on this forum I read that there might be a 1mm difference in the rese between an upper with ( or without (Shadow) the firing pin blockt, but is that all? Are there any other benefits to not having the firing pin block?

For the sake of argument, let's say that CZCustom did exactly the same work on both guns (or even the same gun) with the only difference being the regular vs the Shadow upper. What would be the actual difference when shooting?

[biglou13]

Yes 1mm!!!

If czc did work prolly nothing you would be able to tell...

Both will have very short reset. There is a lifter that hits the firing pin block. Basically you can shave down the lifter. Or remove lifter and replace with spacer..... Pretty ez.

Thing is it's very subtle the feel of lifter moving fpb, A good polish job and it goes away.

Another issue is an few ounces in a pressure situation is nothing. I feel like the short reset and crisp trigger (good hammer sear) is more important than weight.

The real question is why not get base model and DIY. With drop in parts and polishing yourself ....

If I went that way I'd rather get the tac sport for the money, shadow tac 2 and tac sport same price. But if staying d/a s/a shadow. I'd go DIY on base spo1 or 75. Spend the rest on bullets

Czc does more polishing ramp etc etc. I also think they ream for slightly longer chamber. ( notorious short chamber stock). And warranty custom shop gun.

Edited July 31, 2015 by biglou13

[cnote]

model made with block, must retain block to be production legal

[biglou13]

I thought rule is internal non visible alterations are allowed

Never mind Part. 22. States that fo block safeties cannot be modified/ disabled . In a timed pressure situation you won't feel difference the firing pin block spring and lifter create.

Edited July 31, 2015 by biglou13

[EatsEverything]

Mostly, I'm trying to gauge the necessity of a Shadow upper.

Living in California, we can't buy any Shadows directly as none of them are on the roster. We'd either have to buy an on-roster base gun and send it to CZC to build it up to match our desired Shadow model, buy a Shadow upper and DIY, or not bother with the Shadow upper at all.

Sounds like the difference may be very minor and it may be more expedient/cost-effective to do the other upgrades without worrying about the firing pin block.

[haiedras]

Or just find someone with a shadow sp01 or a non shadow sp01 equally worked over and see if the difference is worth it. there are a few of us around the Bay area and SoCal.

[biglou13]

I've handled a shadow and own a stock spo-1. With some double action work that I did. I didn't think the shadow was that much more spectacular. The double action feel was same. There was improvment in single action. On shadow shorter reset slightly crisper break. I think with a few more drop ins and a few hours of labor my stocker will be as good if not better

I was a bit surprised that the shadow wasn't a huge improvment over stock.

Edited July 31, 2015 by biglou13

[cnote]

Prior to introduction of the shadow, and prior to the rule you could not remove the block, I had a mink built 75b with a trigger that was equal to any custom shadow today. Rule changes, I use CGW parts myself to make the gun comply, and I would stack this gun up to anyone else's for a equal trigger. It CAN be done, but I started with a gun already worked over by one of the best

[himurax13]

As far as comparing some of my previous work on both models, I have noticed that if both were fully modded and all of the possible work was done, then I usually find the double action pull and smoothness to be about the same. The actual reset points are pretty close as well.

The difference is that if you use an oversized type 3 disconnector or you just get lucky with a type 1 or a pre b disconnector the static reset is a tad closer to the actual reset point, but the SA break is also close to it.

On the SP01, the SA break is at the rear of the trigger.

I also notice that the 1911 style firing pin setup seems to be a tad more reliable for detonating primers than the firing pin style that uses the cross pin to retain the firing pin.

[IHAVEGAS]

I wonder how many would actually prefer the fpb guns if handed the two side by side.

Unfortunately, I can on occasion (twice this year) get a shot off before I am ready for it during match conditions. Never happens in practice, it is not a good thing, I am working on it. On 1911 style guns the problem goes away as I up the trigger pull weight to at least 3 (better 3 1/2) lbs. Just getting into the wonderful world of cz's (found a good deal on a used sp01 with fpb, have a non fpb block gun on order) , but playing so far has me thinking that I might be best off with some definite amount of pre travel in s.a. and maybe also with the fpb back in place (bought my gun with cgw parts & the fpb already removed).

In comparison to my plastic guns, can't remember a reasonable bit of pre-travel ever bothering me.

[biglou13]

reset isn't an issue for me either

if i do notice it, its only on first shot of a series

if it is an issue

won't a bunch of reset drills fix that?????? more so focusing on finger/trigger reset portion of this drill

I love a tuned gun!! i'm not questioning that

I'm questioning if this is one of those things where you can fix the shooter vs fix the gun.

with a high level competitive shooter, shooting with and without block .... will bill drill times be better?

[kneelingatlas]

If both are tuned up the difference in almost undetectable:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4mVyBJs_hY

[bthoefer]

There are a few more rear sight options for the rear sight dovetail on the shadow.

The firing pin is easier to change / replace on the shadows.

The fpb guns take a touch more work to get the trigger to the same level but not by much, just polishing of the fpb.

[jon49erfan]

makes a huge difference in SAO guns.

[eerw]

With trigger work both are equal.

if only shooting one, you'll never know the difference.

Shot a stainless for a year.

If you shoot both you will notice.

[himurax13]

I have tuned and shot both side by side. I usually have other test things for me since I am biased because I usually either modded the gun or made the ammo so I know there is a difference.

Nearly every shooter I handed the Shadow and the Sp01 to couldn't tell the difference and was amazed at their performance.

The only difference I have notice is where the SA shot breaks. The Shadows tend to break shortly after the reset while the SP01's break at the very rear of the trigger pull.

I think the Shadow might take the lead by a hair just because you will probably break the shot before you have a chance to flinch.

[GeneBray]

I first started shooting Production using an SP01 with FPB removed. Wasn't the least bit happy to have to reinstall when the rules changed. That said, I can notice the FPB lifting when I dry fire. Never feel it when shooting unless I am shooting very slowly and deliberately working on sight picture and trying to shoot small groups.

FPB parts are well polished and removed one or one & 1/2 coil on the FPB spring. Rule states the safety may not be disabled. Mine isn't disabled, and is functional.

[ES13Raven]

I have an SP-01 Shadow Custom, and a SP-01 with CGW Pro Package. The SA pull has about twice as much take-up / pre-travel on the SP-01 but the break feels about the same.

[brisix]

To get the best SA take up/pre-travel on the SP-01 you need to hand fit the type 1 CGW dis-connector. There will still be some travel with the FPB lifter arm. You want some SA pre-travel for reliability. I had a Shadow with a hand fit dis-connector with almost no SA pre-travel. That trigger was 99% of a $5k 2011 Infinity. I had 2011 and 1911 guys dryfire it and they said they would be afraid they would N.D. It was more of a button than a trigger

I prefer the SA pre-travel on my pair of Cajunized SP-01 Tacticals. I don't think it matters to actual performance. Its a personal preference thing.