jhr1986 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I shoot with a red dot now, planning to move to optics but everyone shoots tac ops and I do kinda like shooting irons. What is the ideal setup for tac irons? Are you shooting 20" barrels with an FSB? Your thoughts on a 20" barrel, 15" free float rail with an FSB in front of the rail (with gas block under the handguard obviously)? Is there a 20" barrel that would accomodate this? I'm not to familiar with the 20" profiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPG Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I shoot irons with an 18" with an eotech - unmagnified optics are legal for irons in the matches I attend. I went with 18" because I tend to shoot a variety of matches. Barrel length, imho, depends on the type of match you shoot. 3GN matches typically lean towards the "hoser" style rifle target setup. In that event, you may want a shorter barrel so swinging between targets is easier. In matches that emphasize long range stuff, a 20" (or longer) may be right. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhr1986 Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Follow up question; does anyone make a 20" barrel with a gas port optimized for running a low mass bcg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) 20, 18, 16, it just don't matter. Those who think the 4 inches make a difference are kidding themselves. It may change a top shooters score by a fraction of a second, but for the average shooter...not appreciable. 20 inches ( or even longer) is good for sight radius, that's it. As for extra velocity, it does add some, usually about 100 fps per inch or 2. Comparing a 16 to a 20, all you need to know are your zero and drops at distances regardless of velocity, again no difference. So with true irons, a 20 will be helpful for sight radius. I have a 20 with irons on it just for that reason and it works well. I sometimes drop a scope on it too. To take advantage of the 20 inches for sight radius, the front sight should be mounted just aft of the comp. Using a 2nd gas block is one way, another way is with a front sight barrel clamp. Either way, get the front and rear sight as far apart as possible. As for reccomending a rifle manufacturer with low mass and 20 inch barrels, JP Rifles baby! jj Edited June 15, 2015 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) So I consider myself one of the "newer" shooters to Limited iron/1x, I'm just having a blast and I've learn more from my rifle shooting in limited then I ever did with 12+ years of the military, shooting Open, and shooting Tac-OPS combined. And I've done recently well the past year doing.. with a couple hiccups here and there. With that being said I do have a 20" JP that I first bought believing that was the way to go when I first started off in 3Gun, Basic JP-15 package with LMOS BCG, All I ever shot out of that rifle were Federal Redbox and 90% XM193. Never once did I have a issue with the rifle. My Limited rifle now is a 18" JP Lite-Contour, basically setup like my 20" minus lower. with a Vortex Spitfire 1x. If I were to start over, no question in my mind would be to stick with the 18" rifle I have now, One of the "advantages" to Limited is you're no longer hefting around and extra 5lbs weight on top of you rifle, during my live fire practice I often do strings of off-hand shots from 100 yards to 300 yards at 12inch round plates. I find this training works great because if you can hit a 300yard plate off hand, you think your going to have issue hitting it supported off a barrier? I wouldn't be able to last long going off hand with the 20" inch gun just due to the extra weight of the rifle itself. the 20inch gun is my go-to for 2man PRS style matches but a 3-12x sits ontop of the gun for that type of game. I know KurtM will disagree with this ( I think he still shoots a 20" gun) but I just don't think a 20" gun is needed to shoot anything 3gun, but people could argue the same about 18" guns too i suppose. but IMO my 20 is to muzzle heavy and harder to shoot in weird shooting postions then my 18 inch gun. Edited June 17, 2015 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhr1986 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks for the replies, keep 'em coming. Doc, what contour is your 20"? I can understand not wanting to go too heavy, but I also don't want to go too light either. The rifle I'm using right now is a 16" BCM ELW (22 oz barrel), not exactly a gamer gun. Offhand shots are tough, rifle is twitchy and it's hard to stay on target. Also, the local matches around here have some long shots. This past weekend one target was out at 500. The match before that had 5 or 6 between 300 and 400. I'm still debating between building an 18" for tac ops or a 20" for irons, not that the 2" makes a huge difference but extra sight radius won't hurt. Of course the real answer is that I need both, I just don't need to pay for both right now. Next match at the end of the month I'll shoot irons (as opposed to red dot) and maybe that will help make the decision. Probably not though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Perfectly explained by a dot shooter! No offence there Curtis, but a real iron sight rifle needs as much sight radius as possible hence the 20" barrel. If you are going to shoot a dot type sight, any barrel length will do. I shoot a 20" barrel on my optic rifle as well. I don't feel hindered by the extra ounce in barrel weight nearly as much as the inter-web would have me believe. As for the question who shoots tac irons, well me and about 5 other guys....the rest are really shooting 1X with dots, not iron sights. Edited June 17, 2015 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 But the interwebz knows more about you than you do Kurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Perfectly explained by a dot shooter! No offence there Curtis, but a real iron sight rifle needs as much sight radius as possible hence the 20" barrel. If you are going to shoot a dot type sight, any barrel length will do. I shoot a 20" barrel on my optic rifle as well. I don't feel hindered by the extra ounce in barrel weight nearly as much as the inter-web would have me believe. As for the question who shoots tac irons, well me and about 5 other guys....the rest are really shooting 1X with dots, not iron sights. But... Prismatic... #LEUPOLD4LIFE Edited June 17, 2015 by Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Oh pray tell, what does it know about me? It seems to " know" about a lot of things that are wrong and it will continually bombard you with it till you think you are wrong, but it still doesn't have experience to back up its knowledge. It just seems to repost info that was read somewhere else, that was wrong the first time and in so reposting adds an other layer of incorrecness. Imagine the childhood game of "telephone" with 100,000,000 players who all want to be the expert. If it knows so much about me what was my first horses name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Silver. Duh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hmmmm, wrong search engine amigo! What kinda Nancy boy would name a Buckskin "Silver"..... probably wears a mask to hide his identity, I sure would if I named a horse that!!! Howdy Mr. Chris! Dots are great and the #lewwhatever is a great sight. I welcome my dot sighted bretheren.......even a Brotherston. Well thats why Pinto and I started the whole allow red dots into 1X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Doc, what contour is your 20"? I can understand not wanting to go too heavy, but I also don't want to go too light either. Per JP's site : 20" length ● 1:8 twist ● medium contour My 18" actually isn't that light, it's just more balanced, I think the UBR helped quite a bit to bring the weight of the gun back my chest rather then out past my hands. I've tried to get the 20" down as best as I could, removed the thermal regulater, replaced the gas block and put a carbon fiber 15" handguard on it. ( 18" has a 15" Samson) and the gun still swings like a club, if anything my 18" feels more like my M2 were I can stop it on demand in middle of a swing, and my 20" feels like my SLP, little harder to just stop in middle of a swing and all muzzle weight. I had tried to put a heavier buttstock on my 20" before Magpull PRS, but I still didn't find it balanced well, just made it heavier. I might swap lowers on it and see how i like it with the UBR already setup. it might feel a little better but really my 18" does everything my 20" does, only better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I shoot irons. My Heavy Metal rifle is an Armalite AR10A2, 20" barrel (not really a Govt profile, but not a heavy barrel either), 15.5" handguard and front sight mounted right behind the comp. My mouse gun is a JP CTR-02, 18" light contour (I want a 20" light contour but John doesn't really want to build them) with 15.5" handguard and front sight mounted right behind the comp. It has a DPMS stand alone A2 rear sight. When I do my part, both of these guns serve me well. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSnSC Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) 18" Nordic with an Armalite National Match clamp on front sight mounted behind the comp. I tried to shoot a dot but have inconsistent results. To my eye, it seems to make the targets harder to see. If I can get that front post on it I can hit it... Most of the time... Edited June 18, 2015 by LSnSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 20" GI profile or med wgt barrel, JP clamp on FSB at end with 0.34 KNS front sight. decent comp. Standard a2 rear aperture. For a dot rifle...any 18" 3 gun set up for optics will do nicely. My rifle with an eotech is identical to my optics rifle. Doublestar 3GR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 See? 3 of the 5 other guys have chimed in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 So if I shoot dot on top of Troy same planes...what does that make me? Lazy or ready for the battery to go? For fun I like to shoot an under folder AK with a Krebs peep and see the optics people snicker... I'd like to build an irons toy out of a Ruger 24" upper. Anschutz sights...but that seems a bit delicate for abandonment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Abandonment barrels and true irons sights? no ones EVER HAD ISSUES with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I am probably alone in this, but I'm more confident shooting iron sights. Unfortunately, I came to this realization after investing heavily in tac ops. So, expect to see me either with a bone stock AR service rifle, or US Rifle Cal .30 M1, at a few matches this summer. When it comes time to dedicate a rifle to iron sights, Lead Head has the hot setup I will emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Abandonment barrels and true irons sights? no ones EVER HAD ISSUES with that. Judging by the ninja you've got to be kidding. I'd think a globe front sight would be beat up getting jammed into a barrel. Do correct if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I believe the barrel/iron sight reference had to to with Kurt having a narrowed front sight post in an A2 housing bend. It made for some "trying" longer range shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I still shoot them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyinTX Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Is there a good source for the barrel band? I've been trying to find one for a while now and not having any luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The Lipski is out of production, you might find one used. The other option would be the JP front sight set up. Still available, not quite as clean, or as easy to adjust in my opinion, but far more flexible in it's possible applications. I have used both and after the original adjustment they function identical, with the JP being a tad lighter. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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