learning the hard way on 4th bullet made

[russgarrett]

A while back I got a new Hornady Lock n Load. Everything you need in one kit. After practicing I made what I thought would be my first few to shoot with my 9mm Glock 34.

Went to the indoor range and the first 3 were a little hot. However, I think one round that I had separated as questionable made it into the ones I carried. One was not crimped tight enough I think and the bullet dropped down a little.

When I pulled the trigger it sounded like a cannon when it went off. My hands were black, aching , tingling and just hurt like heck and the gun dropped to the floor. After a few minutes I shot again with factory ammo and the gun is fine.

Can anyone give the formula the right powder and amount, brass and bullet and whatever. This scared the heck out of me but a lesson learned or I go back to buying ammo ready to go. A light load nothing hot please.

[RenoShooter]

That sounded scary... I use Titegroup at 3.6 grains with a 124 Extreme Bullet in my Glock 34. This gets me at a power factor of 127. It shoots awesomely! Also, do you use a drop check gauge at all?

[93notch]

I used 700x in my glock 34 3.4 grains

[wgj3]

You give no details regarding what you loaded in those rounds that were "too hot". Gotta know what powder and bullet you're working with. There are dozens of powders that can work in 9mm; some safer and/or more appropriate than others.

I hope that you started with a load from a published manual and reduced below max for your first try. If not, start over and do just that.

[RenoShooter]

I hope that you started with a load from a published manual and reduced below max for your first try. If not, start over and do just that.

Agreed!

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'd start with the bullets and powder you currently have on hand.

Check BE Forum (Forums, reloading, 9mm) and see what others are

using for that powder/bullet.

OAL is very important - you should run the Plunk Test for your gun,

with the bullet you selected - stay as long as possible, at first.

After you reload a few cartridges, try pushing them very hard into

your reloading table - if any bullets push into the case, stop and

read up on resizing dies - it's NOT crimp that holds the bullet in

place, it's proper sizing of the fired cartridge case.

PLEASE buy a chrono - $70, and a light to illuminate the powder

in your cartridge case (before you put a bullet into the case).

Take your time, and work up Very Slowly - no rush - have fun.

[RDA]

Based on the information you provided (or didn't provide) and the story you told, you would be best served to purchase one or two reloading manuals and read them cover to cover. Good luck and glad to hear you or anyone else was harmed with your first reloading experiment.

[peterthefish]

...

[sfinney]

Find someone who reloads and buy them a beer to help you get things setup. Get a published load and stick with it. Do own a scale? Did you weigh any of your powder charges? Ouch,

Glad you are ok.

[a468bu]

Yes we need more info. Powder? Bullet? Also the "Crimp" does not hold the bullet in place. Any crimping on the 9mm should be very very light. Just enough so that you take the bell out, which you put in from the expanding process.

[aandabooks]

I'm calling Troll on this one.

[peterthefish]

I'm calling Troll on this one.

That was my first thought, but look at the only other post made by this guy. Like 4 years old talking about wanting to reload.

I wonder if he didn't do the whole pour in some powder, add a bullet, see what happens...

[rtp]

A while back I got a new Hornady Lock n Load. Everything you need in one kit. After practicing I made what I thought would be my first few to shoot with my 9mm Glock 34.

Went to the indoor range and the first 3 were a little hot. However, I think one round that I had separated as questionable made it into the ones I carried. One was not crimped tight enough I think and the bullet dropped down a little.

When I pulled the trigger it sounded like a cannon when it went off. My hands were black, aching , tingling and just hurt like heck and the gun dropped to the floor. After a few minutes I shot again with factory ammo and the gun is fine.

Can anyone give the formula the right powder and amount, brass and bullet and whatever. This scared the heck out of me but a lesson learned or I go back to buying ammo ready to go. A light load nothing hot please.

I think RDAs response is the one you really need to listen to - run, don't walk, and buy the ABCs of Reloading and Lyman's 49th. Read both before going back to your press, and ask questions as they come up.

RE: the bolded parts in your post above:

1. You loaded what, exactly? What powder, what bullet, what OAL? The Hornady Powder Measure (hopefully you cleaned well w/degreaser and/or dish detergent and water, then ran several #s of powder through it manually?) is a decent one, and pretty accurate w/most powders...but, what did YOU load?

2. How did you determine 'the first 3 rounds were a little hot'? Chrono? Feel? Other?

3. 'Questionable rounds.' Most of us use a case gage or gun barrel (removed from gun) to check at least a sampling of our rounds, and check primer, OAL, etc. at the same time. Most presses, LnL included, have an output tray that fills up w/completed rounds. If you saw a 'questionable' round getting produced, you fix the problem, and remove the round from the tray - dump it into a container marked to pull down into components later. Likewise, as you're gaging (as a new reloader, you should be checking EVERY round to start), if you see any 'questionable', they immediately get pulled out of the batch and go into the 'pull box.'

4. 'Not crimped enough.' 9mm is a tapered case, with the case mouth being narrower than the base. A properly set up sizing die leaves the cases with *more* than enough tension to hold a bullet securely, any 'crimp' is simply to remove any flare that was added. Take a case and measure the case mouth wall thickness, and double it. Now measure the OD of a bullet where it will be seated (on it's bearing surface). Add the two together, subtract ~.001 or nothing, and that's where your finished round's case mouth OD should wind up.

5. Gun dropped to the floor, but you chose to shoot it again, at an indoor range. I'm kind of speechless on this one, if it happened. No RO from the range came running over, no one told you to NOT shoot that gun again w/out having it checked out, and you thought it would be 'ok' to shoot after what sounds like a large over-pressure event? Dunno what else to say here other than you should NOT have been shooting the gun w/out having the barrel checked out for obstruction, bulging, etc..ideally by a competent gunsmith, before considering shooting the gun again.

6. 'Give a formula...and whatever' - the 'whatever' part of the statement is kind of concerning. You reloading manuals as well as e.g. Hodgdon's online all have load data suitable - what bullet, what powders do you have, etc.? What did you load the 'current' rounds with? Reading a reloading manual is the only 'right' answer here, with you understanding (or asking questions about what you don't) the content in the manual, so you know what's needed, have manufacturer published load data at hand, and don't have to ask for loads specifying brass (really doesn't matter), 'and whatever.' Seriously, this is for your safety.

Good luck!

Based on the information you provided (or didn't provide) and the story you told, you would be best served to purchase one or two reloading manuals and read them cover to cover. Good luck and glad to hear you or anyone else was harmed with your first reloading experiment.

[russgarrett]

SORRY GUYS BUT I DID NOT COME HERE TO TROLL. i CAME TO THIS GROUP TO LEARN AND i SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED i HAVE THE HORNADY AND A COUPLE OF OTHER LOAD BOOKS. i MADE THE MISTAKE.

i WAS AT AN INDOOR RANGE AND DID TAKE THE GUN TO SOMEONE WHO WORKED THERE AND HAD IT CHECKED BEFORE SHOOTING IT AGAIN.

I WAS JUST TRYING TO KEEP THE QUESTION SHORT. SO YOU COUPLE OF GUYS THAT CONSIDER ME A 4 YEAR OLD TROLL THIS IS NEW TO ME AND EVERYONE HAS TO LEARN. i REALLY APPRECIATE YOU ALL THAT GAVE ME GREAT HELP WITH YOU ANSWERS.

[rtp]

So, with the screaming now out of the way....

What load where you actually loading before you ran into issues?

[Grumpy's Toy]

Russ, I think you better stick to buying your bullets from the store for awhile. You need someone

to come over and help set up your press, and build up your confidence, before you continue.

We would hate to see you get hurt.

[jtaylor996]

Russ, to be honest here, I don't think you realize just how lucky you are.

When people make the mistakes you did, they:

1. Die

2. Lose fingers or eyes

3. Destroy guns

ANY of those types of reloading mistakes is a HUGE DEAL and should be a wake up call that you need to change your whole approach to reloading and safety, or just never reload again.

That you had a kaboom and had no injury is AMAZINGLY LUCKY, it never ends that way.

You double charging was a big mistake, but the bigger ones were not paying attention (reloading simply isn't for people who aren't extremely anal), and that you didn't stop shooting when something wasn't right (3 "hot" shots).

The best advice I can give you is this:

1. Check your process. Start with equipment setup, how you verify it (all the measurements you take), and how you will start low and work your way up on loads. Finally, how you will test the loads (chrono).

2. STOP if something isn't right. When you're loading, when you're measuring, and when you're shooting.

3. Get an RCBS lock out die. It's really easy as a beginner to no or double charge on a progressive press. This device locks the press up and destroys the round if the it's not right.

4. Read everything you can get your hands on.

5. Ask yourself if you're having fun. Force yourself to double or triple check everything as you go. If that is torture to you, maybe reloading isn't for you.

I hate to say this also, but no LnL kit has anywhere near everything you need. Off the top of my head you must have: good calipers, good scale and calibration weights, chrono, chamber gauge, organization stuff (ammo boxes and load labels). Without any of those I would never be able to load safely. Literally: dead caliper battery? Not loading today. Can't find the calibration weights? Not loading today. No way to store and ID loaded ammo? Not loading today.

[noylj]

You always start with the starting load. I always start with the lowest starting load I can find.

After seating a bullet, you should always attempt to push the bullet into the case using finger or thumb pressure. If the bullet moves AT ALL, reject the round and break it down.

Regarding COL and functioning issues:

Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as

1) magazine length (space),

2) freebore-lead dimensions of

the barrel,

3) ogive or profile of the projectile and

4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".

• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.

• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.

• Never exceed the Maximum Load."

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using (even bullets that look alike often have slightly different ogives and meplats that will change the "correct" COL).

What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun, as none of us have your gun or your exact lot numbers of components (and don't think that bullet manufacturers don't make unannounced changes to their bullets over time).

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare in small steps until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood on a 1911. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

Folks: you don't NEED calipers or check weights or chrono or case gage to make fully functional and safe ammo. Those help, but they are certainly not needed. You need a chrono to verify PF, but that is about it for when you NEED a chrono.

You do need to label your ammo and you really should maintain a good set of records to keep track of every round you load and how it performs at the range.

[IDescribe]

I'm not sure why anyone is calling this a kaboom. All I've heard about is a guy dropping a gun.

[DRAM40A1]

I'm not sure why anyone is calling this a kaboom. All I've heard about is a guy dropping a gun.

The clue for me was when he said it sounded like a canon going off, his hands were black, tingling, and hurting. Sounds like a kaboom to me.

[himurax13]

I'm calling Troll on this one.

That was my first thought, but look at the only other post made by this guy. Like 4 years old talking about wanting to reload.

I wonder if he didn't do the whole pour in some powder, add a bullet, see what happens...

I remember buying $1500 dollars worth of bear creek bullets some time ago. The seller asked me what press I was using. I looked at him straight in the eye and said I was using a Lee Hammer Kit. The look on his face was priceless.

I'm not sure why anyone is calling this a kaboom. All I've heard about is a guy dropping a gun.

The clue for me was when he said it sounded like a canon going off, his hands were black, tingling, and hurting. Sounds like a kaboom to me.

If powder made it back that far and the frame is not visibly cracked and the magazine didn't get blown out, the only thing I can think of is that the round detonated while the slide was not completely in battery.

Edited May 25, 2015 by himurax13

[IDescribe]

I'm not sure why anyone is calling this a kaboom. All I've heard about is a guy dropping a gun.

The clue for me was when he said it sounded like a canon going off, his hands were black, tingling, and hurting. Sounds like a kaboom to me.

Catastrophic failures involving case, chamber, or barrel ruptures, or at the very least mags blown out, sound like a kaboom to me. This thread sounds like someone trying to get attention.

OP Russ, if you want to know why people might think you're trolling, it's because a question like "Can anyone give the formula the right powder and amount, brass and bullet and whatever?" doesn't come from someone who has read reloading manuals and loaded ammo. It's too devoid of context to have any credibility.

[russgarrett]

I have these reloading books telling exactly how much powder etc.. www.loaddata.com, ,Hornady's 8th Edition Reloading book and one called Reloading for Hand-gunners which is an excellent book and I thing one more with more Load Info. They have powder type and grains velocity, sectional density, diameter, primer, etc.... when I say Recipe I mean what of the item or amounts of grain per say that I just listed do you use in your 34 Glock 3rd Gen for competition. Its been a couple years but i remember the other competitors loaded their own ammo and I would usually come in middle of the pack at the end of the match.

I also do have the scales, electronic calipers and other accessories. I do believe it was the defective plate that had a lot to do this. As soon as a called Hornady they immediately knew the problem and sent me a new 9mm plate and throw the one I had away because it is dangerous. I had already had my little explosion and it did shoot the magazine out of the gun also.

Now the next couple of sentences should really be critiqued because this was my goal and how I was going to get there:

So my idea was to take a 9 mm load out of one of the books such as Hornady and fire it. Then lessen the amount of powder ever so slightly which would be the brand specified in the book but not so much powder as before. This would be to help me get back on target. quicker. Now am I approaching this in completely the wrong way because everyone seems to have their on secrets about their gun loads and will not give them out. So when I said recipe i meant maybe someone out west or north would tell me theirs meaning load data for my gun that they used on their 34.

It does have a Ghost trigger which has problems with PNC i have heard and finally experienced. I may have someone replace it for me because I never work on my gun because when I pull the trigger I want it to go off. Like last month and it was on TV when my wife saw someone breaking into my truck and I caught him.

The bottom side of the casing did have a hole in it. i could look for it if you want and if I find a picture I will try and post it.

my neighbor has a Dillon and a couple of his friends live an hour away. One reloads on his own and the other reloads and resales so we will see how that goes.

So the path to a lighter load on my gun was the goal. I know it is probably the wrong way to go about it but that is why I posted here.

The reason my initial post was so short is because I did not think it would read it if it was to long. I am in a lot of other groups on Yahoo in a different field and if you post are to long people don't read it or just pass over it.

It's 4am now so I will wait for any replies.

[russgarrett]

i will say i knew reloading was dangerous but did not realize how a bullet can slip down in the casing and go Kaboom so badly! i guess this caused too much pressure and made it go Kaboom. At first i noticed this but thought I had separated the bad ones from the good ones.

The mag flew out the gun, the slide was stuck, gun powder and smoke was everywhere, and my hands were black tingled and ached. It was an Attention getter.

There have been some great responses and attention to my post and I and my Life Insurance company appreciate it!

[russgarrett]

Powders I have are kept separate in their original containers. I have Unique, Hodgdon Clay's and Hodgdon Titegroup, Bulls Eye and Powder Pistol.

Federal small pistol primers and CCI.

Speer 9mm 124 GR 355 TMJ. Zero 9mm 115 JHP-C

Hornady XTP 45 Cal .451 #45100 185 gr XTP.

I may have more but at 5:30am time to get some sleep but no more powders.

I also have a XDM 45 5.25 new in the case that I may have shot 5 or 10 times that's about 2 years old. No intention of shooting for it awhile. I just helped someone out and a dealer helped me get the XDM 45.