jtrump Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 So I wet tumble my brass to clean it with primers removed because I'm just nit picky, first off. I was reloading some ammo for my first match yesterday ever... Nervous as hell and starting out on the classifier. Been having some problems with the dilion 550 where the case is wanting to stick while throwing powder and belling the case mouth. I have it set so it just barley shaves no lead from the bullets, and it sticks really bad occasionally. I tried some 1 shot case lube on 100 rounds and let it sit for about 10 minutes and then ran 100 through the press it seemed to help a little. So first match, first stage I'm up and it's the classifier. Buzzer goes off I pull the trigger and literally watch my 200g bullet fly through the air like someone just tossed it and it bounced off the cardboard target..... got the STOP from the RO, checked the chamber tons of unburnt powder in there, hmm... Grabbed a different magazine, buzzer bang same result.. So I'm stressed as all hell now so i throw the joke out there that I swear I'm making major PF... Not sure what happened with that 100rounds of ammo, pulled some of the bullets today, everything seems fine... powder is dry no moisture inside, what gives? Thankfully I brought enough ammo that I had previously loaded and been using to practice with me to the range and ended up with about 25 rounds left over after all said and done.. Anyone have an idea of what could have went wrong? All I can think is moisture got into the primer/powder but the w231 powder looks perfectly fine when pulling the bullets?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 First off one shot won't hurt powder. Did you verify your charge weight prior to loading? If you have some rounds left try to pull the bullets and weigh the charge. I think we discussed your sticking issue the other night? Wet tumbling makes it 100 times worse as the residue in the case mouths acts as a lube to a certain degree. Order a bottle of Dillon case lube as I found it to be far superior to one shot after using OS for 4+ years. Also, there are a few options for the funnel. First order you an MBF funnel from shooters connection and see how much it helps. OR you can chuck your dillon funnel up in a drill press and take a small fine file to the end to work it down ever so slightly. Then sand it to a high shine and test. You will probably do this several times before you get it just right. You still want it to expand a little but you will notice the drag gets less and less. But's it probably easier to use a new MBF funnel. You can do a search on here and find it has helped many a reloader with your exact problem. And of course, you are also learning why I won't bother going to wet tumbling. My brass gets plenty clean without the hassle and side effects of wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtrump Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 The charge weight prior to loading was right at 5.1-5.2g of w231 for a 200g swc. It put me at around 169-171pf. I just weighed a charge from one of the bullets and it was 5.0g, I could have missed a few specs to get to 5.1, the starting load is 4.6g and I've shot a good bit with 4.9 previously with no issues there. When using a vibrating tumbler my brass shines yes, but it never cleans the inside of the cases at all it seems.. it still looks ugly and not clean inside. I make sure I let it dry adequately before reloading, days etc. I will look into the MBF funnel, maybe I'll try to polish mine first and see if it helps, as I mentioned it ran super smooth for the first 3k rounds, and then out of no where it sticks, so I guess it's going to take some sorting out. "maybe your onto something with the fact that the wet tumbling is leaving the cases brand new looking clean with no residue leftover whatsoever, adding more friction to the process." If the one shot didn't do it, and the powder looks fine coming out of the pulled bullets, could the primers be semi-duds? Brand new box.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It's not the wet tumbling causing it, certainly it can cause a minute amount more drag because of the inside of the case being free of residue but no more than a brand new case. Try some different primers, if you don't have another brand then use a fresh package of the ones you do use. Clear your powder measure of the powder in it and replace it, don't throw the cleared powder away, it may be perfectly good after you test the new batch. Those are the only two things that can affect the round firing since you are sure the brass was completely dry before you loaded it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 You might be limp wristing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Primers. Another question though. Why do you want the inside of your brass shiny? You can't even see that side of it once it's loaded...The carbon build up left from firing (and not fully cleaned when using a vibratory tumbler) acts as a kind of lubricant when belling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tires2burn Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Grumpy, You are correct about the inside of the case, main reason I do it - after depriming - is to clean the primer pockets. The interior case cleanliness is just a byproduct of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 You might be limp wristing it. I don't think this would cause a 45 slug to bounce off a cardboard target! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttolliver Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I for one want to know how to load one to bounce off a target. That would be awesome. I thought I'd toss this one idea out there. Definitely not new. But if there is any worry at all about wet tumbled brass still being wet use a cheap food dehydrator. It does an amazing job, cheaply and quietly. And never apologize for being anal about anything reloading related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtrump Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 You might be limp wristing it. You can't be serious ^^ that load probably 90% OF the powder didn't even burn, it was worse than a bunny fart load haha. Air guns have more recoil Another reason I like the cases to be very clean inside, shoot 10-15 rounds of not so clean brass through the chrono with the same powder/bullet/charge etc, and then some perfectly clean or new brass, guaranteed the SD is going to be lower in the new brass. Not that it really matters THAT much, but I am pretty anal ;/ . Also it does make seating new primers really nice when the pockets are nice and clean as well. To each their own, I've tried both I think each have their advantages and disadvantages.. Got this week off, I'll be doing some shooting and hopefully my new part comes in from dillion so I can get my press up and running flawlessly again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtrump Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) You might be limp wristing it. I don't think this would cause a 45 slug to bounce off a cardboard target! HAH sarge, my Gunsmith , said in the 30 years I've been doing this I don't ever recall a time when I saw a 45 bullet bounce off a piece of cardboard, as he laughed. Edited April 20, 2015 by jtrump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Oh come on a little fun. I did see a 4 gun master fire and hit an IDPA target covered with a T shirt and the bullet was caught in the fabric of the t shirt - he caught a lot of hell for that. As far as the post goes - it was either a partially blocked primer hole or a contaminated primer (wet) most likely - I have encountered both over time when reloading - having several in a row is quite unusual makes me wonder if perhaps the wrong powder was loaded - a rifle powder instead of a pistol powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 You might be limp wristing it. You can't be serious ^^ that load probably 90% OF the powder didn't even burn, it was worse than a bunny fart load haha. Air guns have more recoil Another reason I like the cases to be very clean inside, shoot 10-15 rounds of not so clean brass through the chrono with the same powder/bullet/charge etc, and then some perfectly clean or new brass, guaranteed the SD is going to be lower in the new brass. Not that it really matters THAT much, but I am pretty anal ;/ . Also it does make seating new primers really nice when the pockets are nice and clean as well. To each their own, I've tried both I think each have their advantages and disadvantages.. Got this week off, I'll be doing some shooting and hopefully my new part comes in from dillion so I can get my press up and running flawlessly again. Guaranteed? Can you show data on this please So I wet tumble my brass to clean it with primers removed because I'm just nit picky, first off. I was reloading some ammo for my first match yesterday ever... Nervous as hell and starting out on the classifier. Been having some problems with the dilion 550 where the case is wanting to stick while throwing powder and belling the case mouth. I have it set so it just barley shaves no lead from the bullets, and it sticks really bad occasionally. I tried some 1 shot case lube on 100 rounds and let it sit for about 10 minutes and then ran 100 through the press it seemed to help a little. So first match, first stage I'm up and it's the classifier. Buzzer goes off I pull the trigger and literally watch my 200g bullet fly through the air like someone just tossed it and it bounced off the cardboard target..... got the STOP from the RO, checked the chamber tons of unburnt powder in there, hmm... Grabbed a different magazine, buzzer bang same result.. So I'm stressed as all hell now so i throw the joke out there that I swear I'm making major PF... Not sure what happened with that 100rounds of ammo, pulled some of the bullets today, everything seems fine... powder is dry no moisture inside, what gives? Thankfully I brought enough ammo that I had previously loaded and been using to practice with me to the range and ended up with about 25 rounds left over after all said and done.. Anyone have an idea of what could have went wrong? All I can think is moisture got into the primer/powder but the w231 powder looks perfectly fine when pulling the bullets?? Sorry to hear about the problems. Did you get 2 reshoots? Shouldn't rule 5.5.5 be considered here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtrump Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Yea they gave me re-shoots, which was good. I ordered some new starline brass when it comes in I will do my very best to ensure every case gets the exact same treatment/powder/primer as the range brass and I'll run it through 2 chrono's and report back with results. As of now I have no hard evidence to show you no, I don't have the date from previous testing anymore. Oh come on a little fun. I did see a 4 gun master fire and hit an IDPA target covered with a T shirt and the bullet was caught in the fabric of the t shirt - he caught a lot of hell for that. As far as the post goes - it was either a partially blocked primer hole or a contaminated primer (wet) most likely - I have encountered both over time when reloading - having several in a row is quite unusual makes me wonder if perhaps the wrong powder was loaded - a rifle powder instead of a pistol powder. I currently do not reload anything except .45acp, And I currently use only one type of powder w231 so no chance of a different powder, as for the primer holes being blocked, de-primed and stainless tumbled pretty slim chance as I looked them over really well considering I was going to shoot a match with them. A wet primer, or a batch of dud primers is a good possibility even though it was a new box. The brass had days to dry, so who knows. I'm going to do some testing this week. That's pretty funny about the T-shirt covered IDPA target, that's why I cracked the joke to everyone that I promised I was shooting major PF when my 200g bullet bounced off a cardboard target haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postal Bob Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 All that unburned powder indicates that the powder or primer was contaminated(wet), or the primer hole was blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flim-Flam Man Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I too wet tumble and have a thing about clean primer pockets. How long between cleaning bras and loading brass? Note that the primer ignition hole can stay filled with water for quite some time after the outside and inside are dry (as in days). I'm betting the hole had water in it and either damped the primer material, the charge directly at the ignition hole, or both. Apply heat or dessicant always when wet tumbling, or give your brass several days to dry, spread out, agitated regularly, and put in a dry environment (indoors). K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 After I stainless pin brass I run it thru a vibratory with fine grade walnut with Nu-Finish. The fine grade from Harbor Freight won't stick in the primer flash hole and makes absolutely sure the cases are totally dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtrump Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Harbor freight sells fine grade walnut media??? I considered running it through a vibrating tumbler after doing the stainless media. The strangest things happen maybe my formula is off, I use blue coral car wash w/wax and lemi-shine. When they come out of the tumbler they are clean but not super shiny, So i have a separate bath of hot water with lemi-shine in it, and once there rinsed I throw them in there and they turn absolutely beautiful, and then several days later they go back to that orange tint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B45C22 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I wet tumble with the primers in. I put the cases in plastic holders that loaded ammo comes in. I only use the ones with the open bottom. I set them up and run a box fan under them for a few hours, then let them sit in there for a week or so. They then go in zip lock bags with descant packs. Top of the zip lock open for a month or so. Then I close the bags and put them in flat rate boxes. Then I hope I never have to get into my stash of perfect brass. If I need to load some ammo, I take it out of the bags that have been sitting open for a few weeks. Edited April 20, 2015 by B45C22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Yes, Harbor Freight has fine grade walnut hull. If you use Nu-Finish car polish in it they will stay shiny for a long time. The Walnut hull is a 25 lb box and works out to around a dollar a pound. Since you are tumbling clean brass it lasts a long, long time between needing to be changed. Edited April 20, 2015 by Steve RA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 So much extra work....for so little benefit. Shiny brass does not shoot any better, and in fact, is harder to load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Different strokes for different folks !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tires2burn Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Hot water,dawn dish soap with lemi-shine works for me. After about 2 hrs the primer pockets and case inside are like new. I rinse with cold water and spread out on a towel and let my heater fan blow over them for about 30 minutes mixing them up after 15. Dry as a bone and like new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I had something similar (squibs with unburned Clays) first time I loaded SP .45 brass. So, I'm curious...was this LP or SP brass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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