how fast is too fast?

[dgreen]

wide45 said it best. You have to see what's going on and make sure your dot or sights are on the target. Fast will come when your brain catches up with your finger. Plus, never end a training session on a bad run. that will be the first thing in your head the next time out.

[leeb10]

As fast as possible to maintain your desired points percentage obtained out of possible points available (typically 90-95%+).

[Nimitz]

the fundamntal calculus of this sport has not changed:

shoot all alphas as fast as you can ...

(which translates into only as fast as you can see ...)

[GunBugBit]

If I'm hitting all As and knocking down all steel, that means I'm going pretty slowly compared to a lot of competition shooters. I am going to slow down next few matches as I don't want to reinforce bad habits in pursuit of speed. Need to build the accuracy foundation.

[Jake Di Vita]

Don't worry about going faster or slower in matches. Just go out there and hit the targets (A zone).

[GunBugBit]

That's the exact idea I'm going with. But it does require that I slow down from the last few outings where I was intentionally trying to speed up. My focus won't be on slowing down, but on hitting As.

Edited June 15, 2015 by GunBugBit

[lcs]

That's the exact idea I'm going with. But it does require that I slow down from the last few outings where I was intentionally trying to speed up. My focus won't be on slowing down, but on hitting As.

Don't ever slow down---Practice more to match the speed. This game is all about speed. Even Vogel misses and gets Cs every once in a while, but he does not slow down.

[cnote]

That's the exact idea I'm going with. But it does require that I slow down from the last few outings where I was intentionally trying to speed up. My focus won't be on slowing down, but on hitting As.

you are saying the same thing, sounds like the last match you shot (faster) without seeing, and the results of such were poor.

If you see "too much" the hits will be good, but thee results will again be poor

see only what you need "to see" to get the hit

[Jake Di Vita]

Three important things.

It is not possible to see too much while shooting.

Slowing down won't make you more accurate.

Speeding up doesn't necessarily make you sloppier.

[GunBugBit]

It looks to me like all that needs to be said, has been said, plus quite a bit extra. Thanks, out.

[seanc]

I see this recommendation over and over, just shoot A's regardless of time as you see them, or some variation of that.

I must be doing it wrong because i don't get clock faster by not going faster(and failing).

Right now I am definitely stuck at a certain pace.

Its interesting on a timer to see how, for example, at 10 yards I can roll across a plate rack with say a 32 splits, see it all happen, etc....

But if I turn it up just a tiny hair to say a 29-30 split, the performance completely dissolves. I can still see it happening, I see the dot off the plate as the shot breaks, and this is where I am seriously stuck right now trying to figure out how to fix.

same phenomenon on paper, I can see the dot just dart off the center of the target. I don't think its a flinch, I can stand and shoot plates at 30 or 35 yards and hit them over and over with no time pressure.

[Jake Di Vita]

I see this recommendation over and over, just shoot A's regardless of time as you see them, or some variation of that.

This is for match performance.

I must be doing it wrong because i don't get clock faster by not going faster(and failing).

Right now I am definitely stuck at a certain pace.

Its interesting on a timer to see how, for example, at 10 yards I can roll across a plate rack with say a 32 splits, see it all happen, etc....

But if I turn it up just a tiny hair to say a 29-30 split, the performance completely dissolves. I can still see it happening, I see the dot off the plate as the shot breaks, and this is where I am seriously stuck right now trying to figure out how to fix.

same phenomenon on paper, I can see the dot just dart off the center of the target. I don't think its a flinch, I can stand and shoot plates at 30 or 35 yards and hit them over and over with no time pressure.

This is how you improve. In practice, shoot within your capability, gradually increasing the speed until accuracy suffers. At this point don't slow down, work on bringing the accuracy back up.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Jake Di Vita

[seanc]

I see this recommendation over and over, just shoot A's regardless of time as you see them, or some variation of that.

This is for match performance.

I must be doing it wrong because i don't get clock faster by not going faster(and failing).

Right now I am definitely stuck at a certain pace.

Its interesting on a timer to see how, for example, at 10 yards I can roll across a plate rack with say a 32 splits, see it all happen, etc....

But if I turn it up just a tiny hair to say a 29-30 split, the performance completely dissolves. I can still see it happening, I see the dot off the plate as the shot breaks, and this is where I am seriously stuck right now trying to figure out how to fix.

same phenomenon on paper, I can see the dot just dart off the center of the target. I don't think its a flinch, I can stand and shoot plates at 30 or 35 yards and hit them over and over with no time pressure.

This is how you improve. In practice, shoot within your capability, gradually increasing the speed until accuracy suffers. At this point don't slow down, work on bringing the accuracy back up.

Yeah, I hear you, I am definitely in a rut on this right now and I am not being successful at going just a tiny bit faster and pulling the accuracy back up.

The tendency is for the dot to fall off the target, I see the dot in the A or on the plate, working trigger and just before it breaks the dot does something crazy. It seems to imply maybe over anticipating recoil, but then sometimes the shot goes crazy high. I am doing more than one thing wrong when things go wrong I guess.

edit...the loop is, it always comes back to trigger control. I need to refocus on working the trigger fast in dry fire and keeping the dot where it should be while doing it and not accepting what I am letting happen now, becuase when recoil comes into it, its amplifying in a huge way.

today i was doing an elprez style drill at 12 yards. what struck me was if I run this drill anemically slow with like 45 splits/transtions there will still be some low hits sneaking in. If I run with mid 30's, its not that much worse, maybe 2 low out of 12 instead of 1. The twister is, if I just 'go for it' and run as fast as I can work the trigger and transition which is like a mid 20, it doesn't get worse. this really bends my brain becuase when i just go for it, its bascially feels out of control...

Edited June 19, 2015 by seanc

[GunBugBit]

Last club match I was determined to get all A's. I didn't quite achieve that, but what I did achieve was not hitting any no-shoots and no mikes. Plus a good number of A's. I did not think "slow down", I thought "hit A's". I saw what I needed to see to get the A's and then looked the shots off, nothing more. The result was my best club match score so far.

So now I would like to try going faster but not as a function of thinking about it, but rather as a function of natural speed that will come with intelligent practice.

[Jake Di Vita]

Last club match I was determined to get all A's. I didn't quite achieve that, but what I did achieve was not hitting any no-shoots and no mikes. Plus a good number of A's. I did not think "slow down", I thought "hit A's". I saw what I needed to see to get the A's and then looked the shots off, nothing more. The result was my best club match score so far.

So now I would like to try going faster but not as a function of thinking about it, but rather as a function of natural speed that will come with intelligent practice.

The dream is real. That's right where you wanna be.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Jake Di Vita

[Malarkey]

I would say 300mph is too fast

[RangerTrace]

I think you need to know both things. How fast can you physically pull the trigger and how fast can you shoot and still see your sights/call your shots. For me, I can manage .10-.12 splits if I'm just pulling the trigger. But if I'm watching the sights it goes to .18-.20. Of course that gets longer depending on the size/distance of the target.

I tend to grip the pistol as tight as I can.

.10, I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to see that video... Shane Coley is the only person I have seen that has video of .12 on demand. One more would be kinda cool. Yea?

Sorry, it's taken me this long to get to the range and with my lack of practice, .11 was the best I could do.........https://youtu.be/y2YrIPATgbM

[Steve RA]

As long as you can shoot reasonably fast you will improve the match results much more by working on getting from point A to point B as rapidly as possible and being ready to shoot when you arrive.

[ericridebike]

Last club match I was determined to get all A's. I didn't quite achieve that, but what I did achieve was not hitting any no-shoots and no mikes. Plus a good number of A's. I did not think "slow down", I thought "hit A's". I saw what I needed to see to get the A's and then looked the shots off, nothing more. The result was my best club match score so far.

So now I would like to try going faster but not as a function of thinking about it, but rather as a function of natural speed that will come with intelligent practice.

Sounds familiar. Been shooting for a long time, but fairly new to USPSA. I've shot 5 USPSA matches so far (1 in Production and the last 4 in Limited-major). I do some dry fire practice & feel like I have decent speed(for me) in dry fire, but when I shoot matches, I notice I tend to slow down a little and aim more. My match this past weekend was pretty good in the fact I shot majority A's with a few C's, and an occasional D. This is the first match I didn't end up with a mike or a no shoot, so I was happy about that. I feel like I need to push myself a little to try to pick up the speed a bit. So far, I usually finish about the middle of the pack and hoping to end up with an initial classification of C. Really loving USPSA and hate it took so long to try it.

[motosapiens]

The tendency is for the dot to fall off the target, I see the dot in the A or on the plate, working trigger and just before it breaks the dot does something crazy. It seems to imply maybe over anticipating recoil, but then sometimes the shot goes crazy high. I am doing more than one thing wrong when things go wrong I guess.

edit...the loop is, it always comes back to trigger control. I need to refocus on working the trigger fast in dry fire and keeping the dot where it should be while doing it and not accepting what I am letting happen now, becuase when recoil comes into it, its amplifying in a huge way.

it has come to my attention recently that about the most important thing I can work on is to actually see the sights when the shot breaks, so if something goes wrong, I actually notice it. If you are blinking during that instant, you are just hoping the shot went where you aimed it. I'm just starting to be able to do, but it's pretty magical when it happens, and it seems to be the main thing separating me from the M and GM shooters.

[GunBugBit]

There have been times when I was pushing to go faster, and in fact I did go fast (for me); but there have also been times when I was more relaxed but focused on efficiency and crispness where I went faster than ever (the clock does not lie) without really trying to be faster.

[a matt]

Good stuff..

The tendency is for the dot to fall off the target, I see the dot in the A or on the plate, working trigger and just before it breaks the dot does something crazy. It seems to imply maybe over anticipating recoil, but then sometimes the shot goes crazy high. I am doing more than one thing wrong when things go wrong I guess.

edit...the loop is, it always comes back to trigger control. I need to refocus on working the trigger fast in dry fire and keeping the dot where it should be while doing it and not accepting what I am letting happen now, becuase when recoil comes into it, its amplifying in a huge way.

it has come to my attention recently that about the most important thing I can work on is to actually see the sights when the shot breaks, so if something goes wrong, I actually notice it. If you are blinking during that instant, you are just hoping the shot went where you aimed it. I'm just starting to be able to do, but it's pretty magical when it happens, and it seems to be the main thing separating me from the M and GM shooters.