DagoRed Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Hey guys, I took my Springfield trophy match to a shoot Sunday, the damn thing had some light primer strikes again. Fortunately it only happened on one stage (but did pull my overall down). I backed the overtravel screw out even more (the original recommendation by Springfields gunsmith when I called about this happening the very first time I shot it), maybe that helped but I don't trust this damn thing and am having a hard time not saying f*#& it and going back to the rock island. I decided today to buy an xl firing pin from LImcat and try that in it. I had a couple of questions: 1. I can't find anything on "fitting" firing pins (it's all about fitting extractors and firing pin stops), I obviously don't want it to protrude with the hammer resting. so first question is if it's needed do you just shorten the firing pin as necessary to get it not to protrude? 2. How easily should the firing pin stop slide in and out when the extractor is in but the firing pin and firing pin spring out? I was reading a lot last 48 hours and there are recommendations to fit up an EGW stop. I wasn't really looking to do that many things right now until I noticed while checking the firing pin tunnel today that the firing pin stop slides in and out really easily. If I'm placing an order anyways...... I'm replacing the firing pin spring with an extra power one while I'm in there. Thanks guys. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Without more info, it is hard to offer advice. There are lots of issues that could have caused your problems. Was this reloaded ammo or factory? High primers on reloaded ammo can result in light strikes. A dirty firing pin channel can cause light strikes, a broken firing pin, etc. The list goes on. Assuming the firing pin spring is good, an extended firing pin for your caliber pistol should not protrude. To my knowledge, there is no fitting of firing pins required. As far as how easy the firing pin stop should insert, if the extractor isn't in the proper position, it will hinder your ability to re-install the firing pin stop. Once the firing pin and firing pin spring are inserted into the firing pin channel, it will be under tension against the firing pin stop. Without the firing pin or spring and assuming the extractor is properly positioned, the firing pin stop should slide in quite easily because it is under no tension. One quick way to check your current firing pin is to first make sure the pistol is unloaded then insert the regular pencil into the barrel of your pistol, cock the hammer. Point the pistol barrel upright and pull the trigger, if the pencil clears the barrel, you probably have a good firing pin and firing pin spring. Hope this helps. Edited February 12, 2015 by JMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The extended firing fin should install just fine with your OEM FPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DagoRed Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Jmike that was great tip!!!! I considered the off chance it was my reloads, even though I always load them the same and from the same batch have no trouble in my ria, kimber, and two striker fired 45acps. Even if it had been primer depth (in the hurry to get to shooting I didn't keep track of the round I picked up, the other times it happened I just checked visually and saw no problem), it would need fixing. The pencil test though was awesome. In my kimber and rock island the snowman pencil I borrowed from my daughter shot a couple feet in the air. In the TRP and the Trophy Match it barely cleared the barrel. I swapped firing pin springs between my RIA and the TM (it was shorter so I'm guessing the ria is standard and the TM extra power. If I get it right the firing pin spring holds the pin back, not forces it forward) and got a couple inches more that's all. Considering the way over powered main spring they use to overcome the titanium firing pin I'm surprised. I'm going to continue w the plan of an xl pin, extra power spring and am changing out all their crap ILS internals and running a standard spring. I will report back Oh, and leaving the FPS Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The majority of extended length firing pin will be for small diameter firing pin holes. iirc Springfield 45's are large hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Maybe you could use the entire MSH assembly from the RIA and see if it fits into your Springfield to do a quick "pencil launch" test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Did the TM come from the manufacturer with a titanium firing pin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The majority of extended length firing pin will be for small diameter firing pin holes. iirc Springfield 45's are large hole. Springfield's have a proprietary sized firing pin. It is between the two customary sized 1911 pins See part # 826: http://www.edbrown.com/extractor.htm Did the TM come from the manufacturer with a titanium firing pin? They generally do. The 1911 uses an inertial firing pin. What is a longer pin going to do for you? The pin is no longer touching the hammer when it strikes the primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Hey guys, I took my Springfield trophy match to a shoot Sunday, the damn thing had some light primer strikes again. //// I'm replacing the firing pin spring with an extra power one while I'm in there. An XP firing pin spring will make light strikes worse by eating up more strike energy. Assuming the original FP is of proper length (not broken off or worn away), I doubt just making it longer will help with light strikes. These will help: 1) Increasing hammer spring force 2) If it's a series 80, make sure there isn't anything dragging on the FP Edited February 12, 2015 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The majority of extended length firing pin will be for small diameter firing pin holes. iirc Springfield 45's are large hole. Springfield's have a proprietary sized firing pin. It is between the two customary sized 1911 pins See part # 826: http://www.edbrown.com/extractor.htm Did the TM come from the manufacturer with a titanium firing pin? They generally do. The 1911 uses an inertial firing pin. What is a longer pin going to do for you? The pin is no longer touching the hammer when it strikes the primer. It doesn't do a thing to increase strike energy. "Longer must work better" is a scam IMHO, but who knows. Reducing the FP mass will increase strike energy, maybe if there is a titanium version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Don't use the "extra power" firing pin spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The majority of extended length firing pin will be for small diameter firing pin holes. iirc Springfield 45's are large hole. Springfield's have a proprietary sized firing pin. It is between the two customary sized 1911 pinsSee part # 826: http://www.edbrown.com/extractor.htm Did the TM come from the manufacturer with a titanium firing pin?They generally do.The 1911 uses an inertial firing pin. What is a longer pin going to do for you? The pin is no longer touching the hammer when it strikes the primer. It doesn't do a thing to increase strike energy. "Longer must work better" is a scam IMHO, but who knows. Reducing the FP mass will increase strike energy, maybe if there is a titanium version? Going to an extended firing pin has allowed me to run a 17 lb mainspring,and a standard firing pin spring with increased reliability. I have found this consistently true across multiple 2011's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 PatJones, Good to know. Do all their slides, in all calibers have that proprietary sized hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postal Bob Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Before you go changing everything, did you check the firing pin channel and firing pin itself? You say with the pencil test, it barely cleared the barrel. So something is keeping the firing pin from transferring the full force of the hammer strike. Either you have dirt, oil, or a burr in your firing pin channel. Or your firing pin is slightly bent. I had a similar problem in my Trojan. I would get the occasional light strike. It wasn't until I looked closely at the pin, did I realize it had the slightest bend to it. So it worked 99% of the time. Take out the firing pin, and roll it on a flat table, watching the tip. If you see a wobble, it's bent. And also insert the pin back in gun without the spring. Hold gun pointing up, and use something small to push back of pin in so it protrudes thru breechface. Then release it. If the pin doesn't fall back on its own, either it's bent, or the firing pin channel is gunked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 PatJones, Good to know. Do all their slides, in all calibers have that proprietary sized hole? There is always an exception, but it's the size they currently use on all calibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Before you go changing everything, did you check the firing pin channel and firing pin itself? You say with the pencil test, it barely cleared the barrel. So something is keeping the firing pin from transferring the full force of the hammer strike. Either you have dirt, oil, or a burr in your firing pin channel. Or your firing pin is slightly bent. I had a similar problem in my Trojan. I would get the occasional light strike. It wasn't until I looked closely at the pin, did I realize it had the slightest bend to it. So it worked 99% of the time. Take out the firing pin, and roll it on a flat table, watching the tip. If you see a wobble, it's bent. And also insert the pin back in gun without the spring. Hold gun pointing up, and use something small to push back of pin in so it protrudes thru breechface. Then release it. If the pin doesn't fall back on its own, either it's bent, or the firing pin channel is gunked up. Excellent advice given above by Postal Bob and also something I had failed to mention. I'll also say I should have mentioned in the pencil test, the pencil should be clearing th e barrel by a foot or more. The reason I asked the question about the titanium firing pin is because titanium is lighter than steel. Lighter equals less mass, less mass equals less inertial once the hammer strikes the FP. Everyone I have ever talked with that installed an aftermarket titanium FP has had issues that were easily solved by going back to steel. I did a Google search and it appears SA uses a lot of proprietary parts from the titanium FP to the FP spring and even the internals to the MSH. I am not going to question the wisdom & expertise of SA and their decision to use a titanium FP. I would imagine all of these parts have been designed to work in concert together. In other words, deviate from stock parts in one thing and you might ,,,, you get the idea. I think Postal Bob may have discovered exactly what your problem is. Make sure your FP and FPS aren't damaged or bent. I would get a Springfield Armory FP & FPS replacement before I would try anything else. Otherwise, you may upset that balance of the proprietary SA parts. Keep us updated please. Edited February 12, 2015 by JMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 PatJones, Good to know. Do all their slides, in all calibers have that proprietary sized hole? My SA .45's use the little firing pin. And please nobody tell my pistols that an extended firing pin will not fix light strikes since that solved the problem without any other component changes... Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Red, I would not use an extended firing pin. All the Springfields I have seen are 70 Series type. The titanium firing pin already has an extra power firing pin spring to help it pass the drop test. I just gave a conventional MSH to a buddy with a RO. It had an 18lb main spring and operated his pistol perfectly. He did not touch the firing pin or FP spring and he had zero FTFs. Trigger pull weight was reduced. So there is something definitely wrong somewhere in your pistol. As mentioned above, check the FP for roundness, the tunnel for smoothness, and your mainspring and housing. BTW, if you follow through on buying an EGC oversized FPS and fitting it yourself, you'll need access to a mill or have to be very good with a file. You'll have to reduce the width by about .016" and the thickness by a couple of thou. Then you'll have to chamfer or radius the bottom precisely. You may have to fit a new extractor if the width of the slot in your is too long. EGW sells steel firing pins for your pistol. You can easily and inexpensively change your MSH over to the conventional 1911 type and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Before you go changing everything, did you check the firing pin channel and firing pin itself? You say with the pencil test, it barely cleared the barrel. So something is keeping the firing pin from transferring the full force of the hammer strike. Either you have dirt, oil, or a burr in your firing pin channel. Or your firing pin is slightly bent. I had a similar problem in my Trojan. I would get the occasional light strike. It wasn't until I looked closely at the pin, did I realize it had the slightest bend to it. So it worked 99% of the time. Take out the firing pin, and roll it on a flat table, watching the tip. If you see a wobble, it's bent. And also insert the pin back in gun without the spring. Hold gun pointing up, and use something small to push back of pin in so it protrudes thru breechface. Then release it. If the pin doesn't fall back on its own, either it's bent, or the firing pin channel is gunked up. The reason I asked the question about the titanium firing pin is because titanium is lighter than steel. Lighter equals less mass, less mass equals less inertial once the hammer strikes the FP. Everyone I have ever talked with that installed an aftermarket titanium FP has had issues that were easily solved by going back to steel. That's interesting because the opposite is true in most cases. It's strike energy that usually is the important parameter and that is 1/2 mass x velocity (squared), so reducing mass to increase velocity usually gives better ignition. If you see products like Lightning Strike strikers, the key to increased strike energy is reducing the striker mass. Same thing with Apex hammers, reduce mass gives better ignition. Not sure why 1911 firing pins would not follow that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 My guess would be firing pin spring weight. Just a guess though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The majority of extended length firing pin will be for small diameter firing pin holes. iirc Springfield 45's are large hole. Springfield's have a proprietary sized firing pin. It is between the two customary sized 1911 pinsSee part # 826: http://www.edbrown.com/extractor.htm Did the TM come from the manufacturer with a titanium firing pin?They generally do.The 1911 uses an inertial firing pin. What is a longer pin going to do for you? The pin is no longer touching the hammer when it strikes the primer. It doesn't do a thing to increase strike energy. "Longer must work better" is a scam IMHO, but who knows. Reducing the FP mass will increase strike energy, maybe if there is a titanium version? Going to an extended firing pin has allowed me to run a 17 lb mainspring,and a standard firing pin spring with increased reliability. I have found this consistently true across multiple 2011's I agree going from extra power to standard on the firing pin spring will increase ignition energy. The standard spring eats up less energy as the FP moves forward after being struck by the hammer. As for extended firing pins: isn't there a danger of "primer wipe" as the gun unlocks before the FP has fully retracted? Seen that on some guns even with standard FP. Seems like arbitrarily extending the FP tip might screw up the unlock cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DagoRed Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hey guys, thanks for the great advice! I'll start with what I know now about the Springfield 1911's (in retrospect I probably should have done more research BEFORE purchasing, instead of going with, "hey I really like this". Just that I may have gone with the XSE Colt if I was gonna upgrade stuff anyways) To pass Ca drop tests Springfield uses a titanium firing pin, so there is LESS inertia if it is dropped. To have it still work they use a 28lb main spring. When I initially talked to the smith at Springfield I said I was thinking of changing to a standard main spring system and he told me it would make the trigger pull better (obviously right ) I'm not sure the reason they use the smaller diameter pin. Ed brown makes a replacement FP (I'm also getting that, the extended pin is just going in for competition, I'm going to try the standard pin first and see what that does). Because both the TRP and TM have magwells that are blended well and look great I don't want the, imo unnecessary, expense of changing the MSH when I can just replaced the spring, cap, cap pin. I did check the firing pin and the firing pin channel, both look great. It was not gunked or in any way evident of something that would cause a problem. The fact that both the TRP and Trophy Match do the same exact thing (pencil barely leaving barrel, light primer strikes) makes me doubt it is a problem with the gun versus an issue by design. I don't think swapping the MSH and internals from a non-springfield to the trophy match would help me, since they have standard 23lb springs and the springfield setup is supposed to need that heavy main spring to get the ignition to work. Maybe the longer pin is not necessary, from the reading I did nobody that used them had a bad thing to say about them. I honestly don't know the physics that cause it to work better, just going off of what people say and figure give it a try. Other than patience it doesn't sound like fitting the FPS is difficult, I'm not planning to do it right now but may later just to see the difference in the way the gun recoils that people have talked about. I don't want to change too many things at once as I want to know what each change does to the way the gun shoots. The most important thing right now is 100% reliability. I will add some standard power firing pin springs to my order, I plan to place it tonight and figure better to get everything I think I'll need now, even if I don't use it right away. most of this is inexpensive little stuff and like I said I want to experiment with it over time to get my perfect setup. You guys have been a big help, I really appreciate it. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I used to have light strikes with CCI primers until I put a DP extended firing pin in my gun. Now it sets of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Last time I checked, the Dawson was the longest FP for a 2011. Aircooled measured a lot of them one time and that was his conclusion. I run all Dawsons now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 With the extended pin be sure to check if the protrude when the hammer is at rest. Mine did which was surprising to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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