alecmc Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I don't care what others say, changing the rules to allow 8 rounds minor in USPSA was a bad move. Thats ok. I think it was a great move. It was either allow eight shooters or kill the division. As it was it was almost dead anyway. And it's really alive now? I hear a lot of talk, but is match participation really up? Up where you and I are, Mid-Atlantic, it's alot of the same faces with new guns who are consistently shooting revolver, but on occasion there is a few new guys shooting revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 We always had a pretty consistent 2-3 competitors shooting Revolver at Crooked Creek Club (NE Ohio) matches from a pool of 4-5 shooters that had setups. After the rule change we get 3-7 competitors shooting Revolver from a pool of 9-10 shooters with setups. The increase is mostly experience shooters that dug out an old 627s from the back of the safe or bought/traded for a 627 to try our the new rules. One new guy is shooting his brother's 6-shooter after the brother traded for an 8-shooter upgrade having been one of the original pool. I know at least one of those new Revolver shooters was a new USPSA shooter that came in just before the rule change. He showed up to his first match with a 627 and moonclips. He shot production but I was sure to let him know about the pending rule change. He stuck around and is a pretty consistent revolver shooter. Of the new pool of 9-10 shooters about half of us are "Hard Core" and have 8-shooters and the others are club only shooters that like to bring out their 6-shooters on occasion. Like the rule change or not the new rule increased revolver participation at my club. We'll see if that participation continues this coming season. How much of an increase in revolver participation has to occur to deem revolver a healthy division? I think it's always going to be the smallest division in USPSA. We are the odd ducks in this sports. We can't judge a healthly revolver division by comparing it to the other or its always going to look sickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adi Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Last Florida state, the 2nd overall revolver was a guy shooting a 625. The other top 10 all shot 8 rounders. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I don't care what others say, changing the rules to allow 8 rounds minor in USPSA was a bad move. Thats ok. I think it was a great move. It was either allow eight shooters or kill the division. As it was it was almost dead anyway. And it's really alive now? I hear a lot of talk, but is match participation really up? See page 5, based on classifier scores 3% or so, http://uspsa.org/document_library/2014%20USPSA%20Annual%20Report.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 See page 5, based on classifier scores 3% or so, http://uspsa.org/document_library/2014%20USPSA%20Annual%20Report.pdf Classifiers are not the issue. They are all either 6 rounds or reload neutral, it is the filed courses where the increase in capacity kills the 6-shot revo. All thi ssaid, I was never a big revo shooter. I wanted to try it so I spent the $ to get 'the' gun, now if I wanted to play for real, I'd have to spend it all over again. Not happening. If I do show up to shoot, it will be with my 625. Even if Revo division doubled at most clubs it would still be a minor participation division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 See page 5, based on classifier scores 3% or so, http://uspsa.org/document_library/2014%20USPSA%20Annual%20Report.pdf Classifiers are not the issue. They are all either 6 rounds or reload neutral, it is the filed courses where the increase in capacity kills the 6-shot revo. All thi ssaid, I was never a big revo shooter. I wanted to try it so I spent the $ to get 'the' gun, now if I wanted to play for real, I'd have to spend it all over again. Not happening. If I do show up to shoot, it will be with my 625. Even if Revo division doubled at most clubs it would still be a minor participation division. I am not sure what you were trying to indicate by your hack/quote/editing job, but I was responding to Nik asking if participation had increased. If you use the classifiers for participation numbers there is a 3% increase from 2013(357 more people). However the increase from 2012 to 2013 was larger with an increase of 495 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 So in another year and a month when the first opportunity arises to change the revolver division by what metrics would we judge the 8-shot minor rule a success or a failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I like having more folks to shoot against locally. By that measure, it's been a success. We'll never rival limited or production for participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Long as there's a place to shoot'm I'll keep dragging my N frames out to go play; 2 - 625's, 1 - 627 and 1 - 610. Two supposedly with Randy Lee triggers. They are just a joy for an old man like me to run. Beating bottom feeders is a joy unto itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I saw a used (but it honestly looked untouched) 625 JM in the case at my LGS the other day, and they were asking 829. I would love to shoot a revolver and at least try it, but they are so damned expensive. I think that as much as anything is what has kept revolver participation low. You can get set up to shoot any other division (except maybe open) at least semi decently for lets say 1000 bucks. You can hardly even get into the GUN for that much money, let alone all the other stuff you need to shoot a match. It isn't a very friendly division for just "trying out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I saw a used (but it honestly looked untouched) 625 JM in the case at my LGS the other day, and they were asking 829. I would love to shoot a revolver and at least try it, but they are so damned expensive. I think that as much as anything is what has kept revolver participation low. You can get set up to shoot any other division (except maybe open) at least semi decently for lets say 1000 bucks. You can hardly even get into the GUN for that much money, let alone all the other stuff you need to shoot a match. It isn't a very friendly division for just "trying out." Technically you can get into revolver for the same price as any other division, under 1000$. Up until a year ago, a 625 was THE gun for revolver. If they continued to make guns longer than 4", 830$ would have sold plenty of them. Now you can have a 4" 627 pro for under 800$, but people aren't buying them in waves and coming out. Revolver is just a small crowd, and unless you and your opponent are within 2-4% of each other every weekend, the match outcome won't change in USPSA with a 625 or an 8 shot gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I didn't realize they could be had so cheap, the cheapest I think I have ever seen for one was 869. But do you see my point, in that very few people just have a mooned revolver laying around that they can go "try out" revolver division with? But I completely see what you are talking about with the local match results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jh9 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I didn't realize they could be had so cheap, the cheapest I think I have ever seen for one was 869. But do you see my point, in that very few people just have a mooned revolver laying around that they can go "try out" revolver division with? But I completely see what you are talking about with the local match results. IDPA's SSR division has always been structured such that you can be competitive with a surplus S&W model 10 (or any other 6-shot .38) so long as you had Comp-IIIs to feed it with. Those could be found for $15 a pop. Even with the barrier to entry so low there hasn't been a real active "revolver division" in IDPA since the AWB sunset in `04. It's not the price of the guns keeping people out in droves...though I have no doubt at least a few people have thought about trying it only to be disuaded by the cost. It might be that if existing revolver shooters all sold off their 625s at fire-sale prices that could stir up some interest... I will start the bidding for a Carmonized 625 at $30 and a pack of bubble gum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Didn't you hear? Carmoney's work was deemed too dangerous by IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jh9 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Didn't you hear? Carmoney's work was deemed too dangerous by IDPA. Fortunately, I haven't shot IDPA in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Didn't you hear? Carmoney's work was deemed too dangerous by IDPA. LOL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Yes - it's too much like cheating to have one of those! Edited January 31, 2015 by Toolguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I didn't realize they could be had so cheap, the cheapest I think I have ever seen for one was 869. But do you see my point, in that very few people just have a mooned revolver laying around that they can go "try out" revolver division with? But I completely see what you are talking about with the local match results. Not saying I disagree with you, but take a look at SASS. To shoot there you really need TWO revolvers, a rifle, a shotgun, and the garb and they aren't exactly hurting for participants, at least not in my neck of the woods. To be clear I'm still shooting my 6 shot 686 in minor, because I don't want to turn loose of the coin for an 8 shot right now. I could, just don't want to until the work picks back up in my industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoThG Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Didn't you hear? Carmoney's work was deemed too dangerous by IDPA. The classic Carmonized hammer is illegal. I left enough of the tail on my 625's hammer to make it IDPA legal and still removed 1/2 it's weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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