Joe D Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I hope this comes to pass. My wife and I carry G23s. Smith, Springfield and others have guns that would fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordfan485 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I don't think this division is nessessary. There is nothing preventing you from shooting those now in SSP or ESP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) I don't think this division is nessessary. There is nothing preventing you from shooting those now in SSP or ESPI think many would agree it is unnecessary... But I like the idea of having a division where you can compete against others with a gun that you actually carry. I know there is always that person who carries a full size 1911/2011 or Glock 34/35, but most people don't. I like shooting my M&P Shield and I do shoot it in some IDPA matches (SSP) just because I enjoy shooting it. I get destroyed by most of the EX/MA class shooters but it's fun to shoot. The current BUG division just doesn't do it for me, primarily because of no draws and no reloads. Last year I hosted an outlaw bug match and it went real well. It was actually quite similar to the CCP division. Edited December 9, 2014 by Butterpuc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 A G19 sized gun won't stop you from making master in SSP, I could see a division based on a smaller frame like the G26 but in my opinion a G19 sized gun is so close to full size it just doesn't make enough difference, especially at the shot distances in IDPA. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 A G19 sized gun won't stop you from making master in SSP, I could see a division based on a smaller frame like the G26 but in my opinion a G19 sized gun is so close to full size it just doesn't make enough difference, especially at the shot distances in IDPA. Mike I can agree with that. I consider 4" a service size pistol, maybe on the small size. But still "service" size. I would like it to be under 4". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think a CCP division, using equipment rules similar to the current BUG rules would be very well received. Like Butterpuc I have shot 'outlaw' matches where BUG guns ran like the big guns - from the holster, reloads on the clock, tec... and they were fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 G26 and similar sized guns have a Division - BUG. I shot my 23 a good bit at an Atlanta indoor match. By the time you stick a mag extension on a 26 you have a gun that has about the same butt length as a 19/23. The butt is the hardest thing to conceal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Joe D, BUG is not a regular division. It's a 'side match". But, in reality, the BUGs are often the most carried guns. I shoot IDPA with a 4.25 inch M&P 9mm, but I carry a M&P 9mm compact with a full sized magazine (and it conceals well under a tee shirt). I think if the "Founder's Principles" are to be well applied -- defensive pistol -- then a division for the compact guns that most shooters carry would be a good thing. I'll bet they'd have more shooters in that Division than they do in ESR. I know that you can shoot most compacts in a regular IDPA match in the appropriate Division. But, not many do because the bigger guns do give one and edge, and competitors - being competitors - want to score well. I like the CCP Division concept.... if IDPA HQ doesn't screw the equipment rules up too badly... and that's not a guarantee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwinG Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Add me to the +1 of CCP. It seems like the whole point of IDPA honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Sounds like a fun division...I'd be in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman195 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'd like to shoot in CCP with a G19, I also enjoy a G34 in SSP. to me they are the same thing and I shoot my G19 in SSP more than anything. Worth a shot and it would be fun. As long as IDPA HQ doesn't mess the the rules to much (like that other guy said) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) I don't think this division is necessary. There is nothing preventing you from shooting those now in SSP or ESPThere's nothing preventing anyone from shooting an SSP gun in ESP, either, but we have two divisions. In fact, I think the difference between a Glock 19 and 34 is greater than the difference between most SSP and ESP guns. (Neither difference is all that great though.) Edited December 9, 2014 by Not-So-Mad Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I for one, an extra excited for it. I have a shooter on my team who uses a 19 in SSP quite well, but he'll crush in this new class. And for people who feel it's unnecessary, don't shoot. Everyone wins. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I think it would be a better idea to expand BUG than to create CCP. CCP as a whole separate division just seems pointless... I think it would be a bad experience in hindsight later, as they find that scores and times are probably negligibly different if there is even any between it an SSP which those guns already fall under. On the other hand a division that allows for the ever so popular and growing co-witnessed red dot or laser sight, which will show a somewhat significant difference in time and score, and bring a newer generation of shooters into the fold would definitely be a more worth while investment for the sport. And everyone loves BUG, its super popular as a side match. I'd like to see the rules of BUG modified to allow it to be brought into the fold to participate as a whole division. Like an increase in capacity restriction, say to 7 or 8, and allowance of reloads and extra ammunition devices to be carried on person. One could participate in regular stages, yet only compete against others with the same handicaps that come with bug guns size and capacity limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 That's an excellent idea. Use current BUG gun rules, but allow current 'other division' ammo capacity/reloads on the body rules. Run the BUGs just like 'regular guns'. The only fly-in-the-ointment would be PF. 105 is the current minimum PF allowed in IDPA (SSR), but a .380 can't safely make that. That could create problems with knock down steel. Maybe set 9mm/38 Spl as the caliber floor, with a 105 PF to prevent range equipment problems. A 2-inch 38 snubby can make 105, and so can virtually any BUG 9mm. That would let the little guns play without creating major headaches for the MD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmexicocrawler Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 It needs to be a barrel length limit of say 3.5....that puts the G26\27 and many many other guns in it. G23\19 and up can and do shoot in SSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Just make it easy, instead of SSP, ESP, CCP just do this, if it fits regular box = Full Size Carry, if it fits Smaller box (regular box with inserts) = Mid Size Carry, if it fits even smaller box (regular box with inserts) = Small Size Carry. to answer the first questions that will come up, NO I do not think single action triggers will make all other platforms non competitive. I also do not think everything you can do to a ESP gun makes it any "better" than a SSP gun (I'm pretty sure the 2 seconds difference in the classifier times is there to sort of justify the two divisions not due to reality). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Just make it easy, instead of SSP, ESP, CCP just do this, if it fits regular box = Full Size Carry, if it fits Smaller box (regular box with inserts) = Mid Size Carry, if it fits even smaller box (regular box with inserts) = Small Size Carry. to answer the first questions that will come up, NO I do not think single action triggers will make all other platforms non competitive. I also do not think everything you can do to a ESP gun makes it any "better" than a SSP gun (I'm pretty sure the 2 seconds difference in the classifier times is there to sort of justify the two divisions not due to reality). I like the ideas of different size boxes. When I hosted my Outlaw Bug match this year I based the divisions in similar fashion, just didn't have the boxes. It worked out real well. But that makes sense so, we'll see what we really get. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Just make it easy, instead of SSP, ESP, CCP just do this, if it fits regular box = Full Size Carry, if it fits Smaller box (regular box with inserts) = Mid Size Carry, if it fits even smaller box (regular box with inserts) = Small Size Carry. to answer the first questions that will come up, NO I do not think single action triggers will make all other platforms non competitive. I also do not think everything you can do to a ESP gun makes it any "better" than a SSP gun (I'm pretty sure the 2 seconds difference in the classifier times is there to sort of justify the two divisions not due to reality). think I brought that up years and years ago. Is pretty dumb seperating guns by trigger. Especially with striker guns going both ways just look at the times at matches. Dump ESP and SSP, make it fulsize pistol, 4" to 5" and compact pistol. < 4" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19852 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 "Dump ESP and SSP, make it fullsize pistol, 4" to 5" and compact pistol. < 4" " This idea gets my vote. I don't think the expected performance advantage of an SAO trigger has been borne out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 This is another excellent idea - +1. There is no reason a M&P/Glock/XD can't run right along with a 1911/CZ. I shoot at clubs in Florida where the percentage of MA types probably exceeds national "club match" averages. It's a toss up whether the HOA will be shooting a 1911 or a Glock, XD or M&P. Fellow local shooter, Dion Martin, won 1st CDP MA at the last Nationals with a G41, beating a whole bunch of 1911s. I don't know what the CDP Div Champion shot, but Dion would be the first to acknowledge that the difference was the shooter, not the trigger type. The same applies to SSP/ESP. Traditional DA/SA guns are very rare in SSP anymore and IDPA's revision of SSP MA Classifier times acknowledges that fact. If IDPA is desperate to reduce divisions, this is not a bad place to start. Then maybe CCP (in keeping with the Founding Principles) could get a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 A G19 sized gun won't stop you from making master in SSP, I could see a division based on a smaller frame like the G26 but in my opinion a G19 sized gun is so close to full size it just doesn't make enough difference, especially at the shot distances in IDPA. Mike The difference between the Glock Compact and S&W Full size is 1/4"......not really a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUnderwood08 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'd like to see a formalized and expanded version of BUG as the CCP division. Minimum caliber of .380 ACP to allow guys carrying Colt Mustangs, Glock 42s or Bersas to shoot. IMO the Glock 19 is too large. Some do but most don't carry a gun that size day in and day out. IDPA walks a fine line between becoming competition and being a place to hone defensive pistol shooting skills. This category could push it closer to the latter. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 A CCP Division is just a waste of time. These guns are eligible for the existing divisions. An optics division would have broadened the appeal of IDPA and brought in shooters who don't compete today. Besides that, slide mounted optics are the future of carry guns, police guns, hunting guns, and military guns. IDPA had the chance to leap ahead and bring in new people. What did they do? Further divided the sport like a women's golf tournament where you get a prize for entering. I hope you all enjoy winning the woozy division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 OMG!! that was so sexist. Did you not realize that a female is now running IDPA? Shame on you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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