How do you deal with an RO who is not doing his job?

[Cy Soto]

I understand that there are times when an RO may be out of position and therefore misses witnessing a shooter doing something that would have deserved said shooter a DQ but, how do you deal with an RO who disregards a DQ'able offense because he is distracted?

Also, how do you deal with those ROs who choose not to issue a DQ because the shooter in question is either a newbie or a friend of theirs?

[JakeMartens]

http://www.uspsa.org/downloads/RO%20Discipline%20Procedure.pdf

[frag316]

Have you spoken with the MD about this guy? Have you spoken to the guy?

I don't know how your club rolls, but if you're using ROs who travel with the squad, I'd just squad somewhere he isn't.

[Sarge]

Cy,

I was thinking about my MD duties the other day. (Yes, believe it or not, I think about how to do things better all the time). Your question sort of plays right into my train of thought. If a shooter is a problem it should come to my (MD) attention. By the same token, if an RO is a problem that should also come to my attention. There is no excuse for either of the situations you described even at the most local of local matches. In my opinion there should be no such thing as a "distracted" RO. If some outside influence distracts an RO he should stop the shooter, make things right, and have the shooter reshoot the stage. If the RO is distracted mentally for some reason then he should hand over the timer to another RO.

As for not issuing warranted DQ's, I would probably notify the MD/RM and insist a formal complaint be filed. (I believe that is what Jake linked in). ESPECIALLY in the case of a buddy. For a new shooter, I can see an RO issuing safety warnings UP TO A POINT. But if they clearly break the 180, etc then they need to be DQ'ed. If an RO can't handle that then they should not be an RO. Around here everybody who RO's pretty much RO's their friends week in and week out. I want to believe we all know we won't get any slack when it comes to safety violations. I also firmly believe we all do not WANT to DQ anybody but realize it is part of the job if needed.

So I guess to answer the questions, I would report any pressing RO issues to the MD locally or RM in a bigger match. But like I said, not DQing a buddy who clearly violated the rules is cheating and I would want to see some proof that it was reported higher or I would do it myself.

[GrumpyOne]

Cy,

I was thinking about my MD duties the other day. (Yes, believe it or not, I think about how to do things better all the time). Your question sort of plays right into my train of thought. If a shooter is a problem it should come to my (MD) attention. By the same token, if an RO is a problem that should also come to my attention. There is no excuse for either of the situations you described even at the most local of local matches. In my opinion there should be no such thing as a "distracted" RO. If some outside influence distracts an RO he should stop the shooter, make things right, and have the shooter reshoot the stage. If the RO is distracted mentally for some reason then he should hand over the timer to another RO.

As for not issuing warranted DQ's, I would probably notify the MD/RM and insist a formal complaint be filed. (I believe that is what Jake linked in). ESPECIALLY in the case of a buddy. For a new shooter, I can see an RO issuing safety warnings UP TO A POINT. But if they clearly break the 180, etc then they need to be DQ'ed. If an RO can't handle that then they should not be an RO. Around here everybody who RO's pretty much RO's their friends week in and week out. I want to believe we all know we won't get any slack when it comes to safety violations. I also firmly believe we all do not WANT to DQ anybody but realize it is part of the job if needed.

So I guess to answer the questions, I would report any pressing RO issues to the MD locally or RM in a bigger match. But like I said, not DQing a buddy who clearly violated the rules is cheating and I would want to see some proof that it was reported higher or I would do it myself.

I feel EXACTLY the same way.

[George Jones]

We have safety rules for a reason. Many of them are intended to prevent damage/injury.

There are two different issues involved in the scenario as described. The first is the potential for injury. If it ever happens, I strongly suspect that everyone in the vicinity may get sued by somebody. The first one in line will be the shooter, immediately followed by the RO and the MD. If that isn't enough reason to follow the rules, I don't know what is.

Then there's the issue of RO integrity. Officiating carries with it responsibilities. If the (so-called) RO can't meet those responsibilities, he should not carry a timer or clipboard and should not have an RO card in his pocket.

[Gary Johnson]

The OP is a little thin on details so forgive me if I guess wrong but this sounds like a club level match using embedded range officers who may or may not be certified / experienced.

If that is the case then you should use this opportunity to educate them. In the case of a distracted RO disregarding something. If you are saying you feel he was paying attention to the wrong thing I would point that out to him. He may agree that your opinion of what should be watched is the better one and change his methods or he may explain to you why he was watching something else. Either way you can't really state anything conclusive until you've asked.

In any case the first thing to do is discuss your concern with the individual in question. If that doesn't produce a satisfactory result report your concern to the RM if there is one or whomever is in charge of the match if there isn't. If you're still not satisfied then take it up with NROI. It can be as simple as sending a message to Troy or you can go the formal route and submit an official report.

[9x45]

Just because the guy is holding a clock doesn't mean he is NROI certified.

[Sarge]

Just because the guy is holding a clock doesn't mean he is NROI certified.

maybe where you shoot but not around here. We try to make it the rare emergency situation that a non certified person RO's

[MarkCO]

I understand that there are times when an RO may be out of position and therefore misses witnessing a shooter doing something that would have deserved said shooter a DQ but, how do you deal with an RO who disregards a DQ'able offense because he is distracted?

Also, how do you deal with those ROs who choose not to issue a DQ because the shooter in question is either a newbie or a friend of theirs?

Should be reported to the MD, SC, and other club presidents if the matter can not be handled at the time.

I will assume that an attempt was made to rectify the situation when it occurred. If not, it should have been. If it was not handled correctly, then it needs to be brought to light and the offender offered a chance to change his actions or cease working as an RO. If the later, it should be reported to NROI.

[Parallax3D]

I can see a case where an RO occasionally is out of position and doesn't see something. Even experienced ROs can't always anticipate what the shooter is going to do, or where they are going to move.

INTENTIONALLY ignoring a DQ for a buddy? HELL NO!! I would report the guy to the MD, and possibly the NROI if they were certified.
Remember, we just had an RO banned for adding or subtracting from people's times to benefit his buddies. Someone ignoring a DQ is even worse!

[rowdyb]

Well I wish I would of read this before the last match I was in so I would have known what to do.......

I watched a person with a timer yell STOP as the shooter dropped the gun to the ground at ulsc when holstering. The time holder ( i won't say RO) picked up the gun cleared it and handed it back to the shooter. The shooter said, "well I am done" and started to walk away. "Nah man, come on back and shoot" said the timer holder.

I have to assume they are friends as they were wearing the same logo shirt.

My squad was sitting at the back of the bay and as I watched it unfold I just yelled out enough for them to hear "that's bullshi*!" and left it at that. Now I know better what I should have done. I've not shot much USPSA as in the past I just shot a classifier at an indoor match and then left, so my experience isn't that high of a level.

Thank you for giving me a clear course of action for something I never thought I'd see.

[Parallax3D]

Well I wish I would of read this before the last match I was in so I would have known what to do.......

I watched a person with a timer yell STOP as the shooter dropped the gun to the ground at ulsc when holstering. The time holder ( i won't say RO) picked up the gun cleared it and handed it back to the shooter. The shooter said, "well I am done" and started to walk away. "Nah man, come on back and shoot" said the timer holder.

The shooter SHOULD have taken the DQ, regardless of what the "timekeeper" thought. If you KNOW that you DQ'd, be a man and take yourself out of the match.

I actually had to do that myself about a week ago. Shooting a steel match, (very cold and windy, so my hands were freezing), and I AD'd into the ground less than 10 ft from me on the draw.

I didn't even give the RO time to think about DQing me. I did it myself. If you're an RO or CRO like I am and you can't set an example when you screw up, then you don't belong in that postion.

I stayed and RO'd everyone else on my squad for the rest of the match too. I believe in good sportsmanship. Being all ticked-off and leaving, instead of staying and helping paste targets, etc. is poor sportsmanship IMO.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Parallax3D

[Sarge]

Well I wish I would of read this before the last match I was in so I would have known what to do.......

I watched a person with a timer yell STOP as the shooter dropped the gun to the ground at ulsc when holstering. The time holder ( i won't say RO) picked up the gun cleared it and handed it back to the shooter. The shooter said, "well I am done" and started to walk away. "Nah man, come on back and shoot" said the timer holder.

I have to assume they are friends as they were wearing the same logo shirt.

My squad was sitting at the back of the bay and as I watched it unfold I just yelled out enough for them to hear "that's bullshi*!" and left it at that. Now I know better what I should have done. I've not shot much USPSA as in the past I just shot a classifier at an indoor match and then left, so my experience isn't that high of a level.

Thank you for giving me a clear course of action for something I never thought I'd see.

It's not too late to let the MD or person in charge know what happened and how you feel about it. If he is worth a damn he will thank you for letting him know!

[BobS761]

Kind of the same, but kind of different perspective. In my situation, I find myself at local club matches sometimes in the role of RO. Sometimes just for a few shooters, sometimes the whole squad. My intent is to take the first reasonably available RO class, because I have an interest. That said, from my perspective, if I can do something better, or see something better, please, please tell me. I can take and appreciate constructive criticism, and have.

[Sarge]

Kind of the same, but kind of different perspective. In my situation, I find myself at local club matches sometimes in the role of RO. Sometimes just for a few shooters, sometimes the whole squad. My intent is to take the first reasonably available RO class, because I have an interest. That said, from my perspective, if I can do something better, or see something better, please, please tell me. I can take and appreciate constructive criticism, and have.

How far is Utica from Cincinnati? I am hosting a level I RO seminar Jan 31-Feb 1.

[BobS761]

I can probably do Cincinnati!

[e5gator]

Agree with talking to MD, and about the no DQ for newbie/friend. My Uncle often likes to RO me during club matches and watches like a hawk for a DQ-able offense. Not because he is sadistic, but because if he misses it or lets it slide, it can become habit and bite me later on

[Chills1994]

Well I wish I would of read this before the last match I was in so I would have known what to do.......

I watched a person with a timer yell STOP as the shooter dropped the gun to the ground at ulsc when holstering. The time holder ( i won't say RO) picked up the gun cleared it and handed it back to the shooter. The shooter said, "well I am done" and started to walk away. "Nah man, come on back and shoot" said the timer holder.

I have to assume they are friends as they were wearing the same logo shirt.

My squad was sitting at the back of the bay and as I watched it unfold I just yelled out enough for them to hear "that's bullshi*!" and left it at that. Now I know better what I should have done. I've not shot much USPSA as in the past I just shot a classifier at an indoor match and then left, so my experience isn't that high of a level.

Thank you for giving me a clear course of action for something I never thought I'd see.

The part in bold...make me cringe every time I see a YouTube video of some match, including 3 gun, where the shooter and the RO are wearing the same sponsor's jersey.

[Chills1994]

Your first step should be talk to the MD.

People appreciate it when you follow kind of a chain of command protocol, versus spouting off about it on the internet, and totally blind-siding an MD when he first hears about it off some internet forum.