kurtm Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Well, you see I don't drop the gun off my shoulder to load, so all I can do is load two from lock back like I do, and then just load two in and let the gun do it. The result.....a complete wash. The grab and index on the receiver plays a much larger part than if it loads its self. Average with both systems right around 1.34 to load two from the shoulder, either way, shot to shot. Sometimes auto load is faster, sometimes not. I did a bunch of testing of the Gold so I really can answer if A5 Kurt would always beat Benelli Kurt and once again it was a wash, mostly. There were far more critical skills that decided it than if it auto loads. Benelli Kurt would almost always beat Gold Kurt on empty gun starts. It was a complete wash if the gun started full and never ran out.....ie I counted. For sudden lock back (someone else loading the gun) Benelli Kurt DOMINATED....Still got to figure it out and then react! For planned run dry, Gold Kurt did have a slight edge, but Benelli Kurt also won a few of these, and the Times were within tenths......But Gold Kurt wasn't as reliable as Benelli Kurt, and the perceived advantage wasn't near enough to off set that.! The new A5 may have got the reliable fixed, I don't know! And my disclaimer is I have a bunch of time behind a Benelli, but after an honest 5000 round try at a Gold, I can say...Not a game changer. Convenient like pop tops, neat like a thermos, but not electric can opener cool.....it has to have a detachable box magazine for that. Edited November 24, 2014 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I'm confused, how many times did you have to clone yourself to do this test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Just twice, but one of the clones, cloned his clone, and now I'm not sure how many of us there are. All I know for sure is that I had to have bought more beer than that.....they must like it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxymajor Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Funny stuff both of you!, or which ever Kurt wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well, you see I don't drop the gun off my shoulder to load, so all I can do is load two from lock back like I do, and then just load two in and let the gun do it. The result.....a complete wash. The grab and index on the receiver plays a much larger part than if it loads its self. Average with both systems right around 1.34 to load two from the shoulder, either way, shot to shot. Sometimes auto load is faster, sometimes not. I did a bunch of testing of the Gold so I really can answer if A5 Kurt would always beat Benelli Kurt and once again it was a wash, mostly. There were far more critical skills that decided it than if it auto loads. Benelli Kurt would almost always beat Gold Kurt on empty gun starts. It was a complete wash if the gun started full and never ran out.....ie I counted. For sudden lock back (someone else loading the gun) Benelli Kurt DOMINATED....Still got to figure it out and then react! For planned run dry, Gold Kurt did have a slight edge, but Benelli Kurt also won a few of these, and the Times were within tenths......But Gold Kurt wasn't as reliable as Benelli Kurt, and the perceived advantage wasn't near enough to off set that.! The new A5 may have got the reliable fixed, I don't know! And my disclaimer is I have a bunch of time behind a Benelli, but after an honest 5000 round try at a Gold, I can say...Not a game changer. Convenient like pop tops, neat like a thermos, but not electric can opener cool.....it has to have a detachable box magazine for that. Kurt, when you have the bolt locked back, are you port loading the first shell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I think it also depends a lot on how you load. If you are a weakhand caddie (or side saddle if anyone still does that) loader I don't think auto load helps as much as it does for dual/quad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes, I port load the first one, push down on it to trip the shell cutoff lever which starts the bolt closing. By doing this the second shell is now lined up with the loading port so all you do is push it in. Loading just two is much quicker than when I do it with 4 shells in my hand, which takes around 3.3-3.7 seconds shot to shot......BUT don't forget that is a lock back that is planned for. When it isn't it takes longer because you mentally have to figure out it is out not jammed and then do something about it. I agree 100% with your assessment. It probably is a good feature for the duce and quad guys, because with the gun off your shoulder and up side down it would be hard to hit the shell release button or push down on a shell to trip the shell cut off lever...a la Benelli/Versa Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskino Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Just twice, but one of the clones, cloned his clone, and now I'm not sure how many of us there are. All I know for sure is that I had to have bought more beer than that.....they must like it too Kurt your funny man!!LOL Edited November 24, 2014 by Oskino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwikel Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ran my first match with the A5 yesterday. It ate federal bulk the whole time with no issues. The recoil impulse is defiantly different than a gas gun with quick splits. Although the recoil is more intense than a gas gun it is a much shorter impulse and I felt it allowed me to get back on target quicker. I measured the trigger pull and it is a little less than 5 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes, I port load the first one, push down on it to trip the shell cutoff lever which starts the bolt closing. By doing this the second shell is now lined up with the loading port so all you do is push it in. Loading just two is much quicker than when I do it with 4 shells in my hand, which takes around 3.3-3.7 seconds shot to shot......BUT don't forget that is a lock back that is planned for. When it isn't it takes longer because you mentally have to figure out it is out not jammed and then do something about it. I agree 100% with your assessment. It probably is a good feature for the duce and quad guys, because with the gun off your shoulder and up side down it would be hard to hit the shell release button or push down on a shell to trip the shell cut off lever...a la Benelli/Versa Max Ok got it. Works pretty slick. Although without practice I am having visions of an M1 thumb from shooting DCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headworked Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Kurt, When you're dropping the first round into the chamber on an empty gun start, Im assuming its a closed bolt/none in tube start, port arms, right? Are you flipping the gun over on its side with chamber facing upwards? Im trying to envision how you are weak-hand stuffing two that fast...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Empty gun and locked back are two different conditions. Locked back is what I assume we are talking about here, as the auto-load feature doesn't work if the bolt is forward. Empty gun starts, internationally, are 1. Gun at trail, empty. 2. Sitting flat or racked empty. They don't specify that the bolt be closed. For a bolt down, empty gun, at port arms.....that is a silly start position btw....I would shoulder the gun as I grab the first 4 and load them, load the next 4 and as soon as the last shell went into the tube I would pull thee trigger to release a shell onto the carrier, and reaching under the receiver with my weak hand.....which was just there loading....I would rack the bolt and fire. To load 8 and shoot a round from the beep takes about 5.5 seconds been in the real high 4s and have been in the mid 6s depending on the day. To just load two, I would grab two while shouldering, load them, pull the trigger and rack it as above. Just tried it at 1.63-1.80......but once again why would you just load two. Edited November 24, 2014 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headworked Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) I thought I read earlier where you were grabbing two weak-hand, and putting one in the open chamber, hitting button to close bolt, then stuffing the other in underneath like usual... I thought you were saying this was much easier to handle than having 4 in weak hand, and trying to drop one in the chamber... Edited November 24, 2014 by Headworked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Empty gun and locked back are two different conditions. Locked back is what I assume we are talking about here, as the auto-load feature doesn't work if the bolt is forward. Empty gun starts, internationally, are 1. Gun at trail, empty. 2. Sitting flat or racked empty. They don't specify that the bolt be closed. For a bolt down, empty gun, at port arms.....that is a silly start position btw....I would shoulder the gun as I grab the first 4 and load them, load the next 4 and as soon as the last shell went into the tube I would pull thee trigger to release a shell onto the carrier, and reaching under the receiver with my weak hand.....which was just there loading....I would rack the bolt and fire. To load 8 and shoot a round from the beep takes about 5.5 seconds been in the real high 4s and have been in the mid 6s depending on the day. To just load two, I would grab two while shouldering, load them, pull the trigger and rack it as above. Just tried it at 1.63-1.80......but once again why would you just load two. What are you some kind of Hot Rod Champion Shotgunner? KurtM you say??? I'll have to remember that name. Oh and if that new A5 will "auto load" empty chamber bolt closed that would be a neat trick! And to add some more to the mix...you know I ran the old A5 for several years before I went Italian! Edited November 24, 2014 by P.E. Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 P.E. Kelley is going to remember my name? HELL I must have arrived....or at least one of me has.....maybe the Kurt who made off with all my beer. Kelley you say? Couldn't have been that A5 driver I used to see once a year in Vegas could it. Seems our amigo Jim Wall used an A5 as well on occasion, as I recall. Headworked, Roxie Mayor asked about loading twos/ duces, so that is what I was responding to. I was not implying that that is what I usually do. You have me very confused as to what you are asking. I have described all the ways I put ammo into an empty gun. The loading two thing was so Roxie and I were comparing two,s to two,s so the time frame would be relevant. I can load 1, or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or any mix there of because of the system I use. I've described how I deal with a closed bolt empty start, and I have described how i do an open bolt empty start. I can do either with 1-5 shells depending on how many I decide to grab.....my usual is to grab 4. 5 is more difficult but I am working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bacus Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Jim Wall, good lord you have been around a while! I haven't heard that name in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hmm......you have ALSO heard of him......seems to me you have been......uh......what were we talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jupo Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Crucible Armament did the one I have pics posted of above. They milled the loading port, lightened the bolt, worked the trigger and extended my factory lifter. I am curious to see how the Nordic follower works for you. I could use a little extra room to make sure my 12th round goes in easy. Any chance you could post pics of the lightened bolt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwikel Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Sure I can later today. You want pics in or out of the receiver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 mmmm. Poptarts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headworked Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Just for information purposes, this A5 was built using a certificate off the prize table at the Benelli Challenge at Rockcastle Shooting Center... I hope we get to see this match there again!! Trey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headworked Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Headworked, Roxie Mayor asked about loading twos/ duces, so that is what I was responding to. I was not implying that that is what I usually do. You have me very confused as to what you are asking. I have described all the ways I put ammo into an empty gun. Kurt, I thought you were doing something odd and contorted with a weakhand grab of 2 shells, bolt locked back, where you were throwing a shell into the chamber, closing it, and stuffing second shell in underneath like normal... I misunderstood you, I suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Headworked, I do old fashioned weak hand loading from 6 round Choate caddies, not twins, not duces, not quads. I load at the shoulder, I never drop the gun down, turn it up side down, put the stock over my shoulder...anything like that. The problem is that now folks who load twins or quads with their "weak hand" are calling it weak hand loading, which causes people who have never see the old weak hand loading to become very confused. Once again I don't drop the gun off my shoulder to load and at anytime durring the loading sequence I can shoot the gun one handed as I always have a firing grip on the gun. Edited November 25, 2014 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Well there's your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwikel Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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