JGus Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I don't understand the conspiracy theorists debate on whether 2000 Accu's have been manufactured? It's approved for USPSA Production division, so who gives a shit? It's a moot point. If you really have an issue with it don't bitch on BEnos, do something about it and contact USPSA. And since it's already on their approved Production list, I'm sure they will give it their full attention, much like they did the FNS longslide. But the next time you shoot a USPSA Major, pay attention. There will be more Accu's than you think. Even in the local area club matches I shoot I see a fair share of Accu's, In the area I shoot, at the 4 different club matches I shoot each month, I see quite a few Shadows and a decent number of those are Accu's (I have no idea the %). However, I've only seen one guy shooting a Tanfo/EAA Stock II, and it's .40s&w. The debate is idpa, not uspsa. Its on the production list so there is no argument there..... Good point. I don't know IDPA rules and didn't realize their rule was 2000 PER YEAR, vs 2000 in total produced for USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Reading this thread reminds me why I quit shooting IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 the accushadow is in cz-usas list of guns on their own website, apart from the czc website. to me, that makes it a factory gun. more so than that wilson combat berreta is oem, that's for damn sure. just another straw about to break my idpa back. which is sad as i like the shooting and have lots of friends who are in it. but im not spending 20 grand a year traveling all over the US to shoot for an organization that does stuff like this. the 2 thousand per year is nonsense as it can't possibly be accurately checked and policed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmt Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 ...but the Wilson Combat Beretta is good to go? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1tWE07UVU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 IDPA is smothering themselves into extinction. They are taking the fun out of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowfin Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) I have more than enough other kind of matches within driving distance of my house than to put up with (and pay money+ammo for) this and the all of the other recent shenannigans. Edited September 11, 2014 by yellowfin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowfin Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 ...but the Wilson Combat Beretta is good to go? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1tWE07UVU It's tempting to get one of those in the 96 and use it for Limited 10, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 ...but the Wilson Combat Beretta is good to go? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1tWE07UVU Everyone knows the Wilson Combat models are found on Beretta's US site, right? They are practically Beretta OEM, it says so in the name. It is also undisputed that they have produced 2k a year of them since the release in, what was it, June? I get that there is some machining magic that occurs to make the Accushadow, but it has a SKU and is on the CZ USA website. Didn't see the WC SKU anywhere on the Beretta site. Maybe Angus needs to be a founder of IDPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellM Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 So was there a speific person that was supposed to shoot an Accu-Shadow at the match that they wanted to keep out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 ...but the Wilson Combat Beretta is good to go? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1tWE07UVU What is special about that M9A1? New sights and a trigger job? No extreme milling there. It's just a M9A1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmt Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 ...but the Wilson Combat Beretta is good to go? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1tWE07UVU What is special about that M9A1? New sights and a trigger job? No extreme milling there. It's just a M9A1. So it;s the amount of modifications you're arguing, not the fact that it was modified by someone other than the OEM? Hypocrite? USPSA shooters buy Accu's, IDPA shooters don't. IDPA is butt-hurt that USPSA shooters are winning their coveted Gold Stars or Blue Ribbons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 It does not violate SSP rules. What don't you understand? Granted I'm not a tool who posts my guns in my signature...haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 PMT... You do realize wilson is using a bunch of factory parts right? That's completely SSP legal. The accushadow is NOT made by CZ UB, nor are the dang parts....Unless someone can prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 PMT... You do realize wilson is using a bunch of factory parts right? That's completely SSP legal. The accushadow is NOT made by CZ UB, nor are the dang parts....Unless someone can prove otherwise. Again, that doesn't matter according to IDPA's definition of OEM: "OEM product is defined as a complete firearm product, with specific model part numbers or sku’s catalogued as stock items by the manufacturer and have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units for that specific model" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 These are legal modifications using OEM parts. It is a bit different than a third party dramatically milling a slide which is prohibited. Read the rest of the rules. Here you go: http://members.idpa.com/Content/Rules/g0hunysc.eoc.pdf Either way I doubt CZ Custom can crank out 2000 Shadow Targets or AccuShadows or whatever model they have annually per SSP requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 These are legal modifications using OEM parts. It is a bit different than a third party dramatically milling a slide which is prohibited. Read the rest of the rules. Here you go: http://members.idpa.com/Content/Rules/g0hunysc.eoc.pdf Either way I doubt CZ Custom can crank out 2000 Shadow Targets or AccuShadows or whatever model they have annually per SSP requirements. Don't quit your day job to become a lawyer because you suck at reading comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 These are legal modifications using OEM parts. It is a bit different than a third party dramatically milling a slide which is prohibited. Read the rest of the rules. Here you go: http://members.idpa.com/Content/Rules/g0hunysc.eoc.pdf Either way I doubt CZ Custom can crank out 2000 Shadow Targets or AccuShadows or whatever model they have annually per SSP requirements. Don't quit your day job to become a lawyer because you suck at reading comprehension. ROTFL. Please explain then because I'm too stupid to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I must be too... CZ custom is not owned by CZ USA. The website even says CZ Accushadow BY CZ CUSTOM.... So if you cannot mill a slide, how can an accubushing be installed by a third party vendor with non factory parts and somehow end up being a production model? It has a SKU because CZ custom was smart enough to realize that they would need that to obtain USPSA production legality... If we go back earlier in the thread you will see that there were people wagging their fingers about shenanigans going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I must be too... CZ custom is not owned by CZ USA. The website even says CZ Accushadow BY CZ CUSTOM.... So if you cannot mill a slide, how can an accubushing be installed by a third party vendor with non factory parts and somehow end up being a production model? It has a SKU because CZ custom was smart enough to realize that they would need that to obtain USPSA production legality... If we go back earlier in the thread you will see that there were people wagging their fingers about shenanigans going on... It doesn't matter who owns what. The only thing that matters is that it is a complete firearm product with a specific model part number and that it makes production volume requirements. Why do you continue to ignore this? "OEM product is defined as a complete firearm product, with specific model part numbers or sku’s catalogued as stock items by the manufacturer and have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units for that specific model" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) It absolutely matters who owns what. It's why a Performance Center gun is allowed, but not a CZ Custom AccuShadow. Go read the whole damn rule book. "OEM product is defined as a complete firearm product - Shadows that require milling do not fit with specific model part numbers or sku’s catalogued as stock items by the manufacturer - They do have SKUs, as do the hats CZ sells... and have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units for that specific model" - I'd love to see 2k a year of the AccuShadows and Shadow Targets... Anymore questions? Edited September 11, 2014 by matt7184 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Its not an OEM product though... Nor does it meet the 2,000 # annual production requirements. Please show me the SKU for the accubushing part itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 You're wrong. IDPA is out to get ya if you have a AccuShadow.... IPSC too: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=161422&p=1802146 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Matt So what you're saying is if I buy this gun it's not a complete firearm so it's not legal? It looks complete when I take it out of the box. And the fact that it has a SKU number listed as required by the rule book doesn't matter either? What if they included the metal they milled off in a little bag. Could you keep that in your pocket so you have the complete firearm? Is that what people shooting the S&W performance center gun do to keep it legal? Rule says Must be complete firearm product.....It is Must have listed part number to order....sounds like it does must make 2k units.....This is the only question really. And no one has posted any proof that weather or not they do. Edited September 11, 2014 by Racinready300ex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt7184 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 What rule book are you looking at? And it is a complete firearm. Made illegal for IDPA SSP by a third party gunsmith: Ghost/CZ-Custom. This is very simple. I think the AccuShadow is an awesome gun, but the whiners here are annoying. It's not legal for SSP. If you hate IDPA so much don't shoot it. Go to a USPSA match and have Paul Hendrix work your timer as you shoot an FNS 9L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Its not an OEM product though... Nor does it meet the 2,000 # annual production requirements. Please show me the SKU for the accubushing part itself. How do you know it doesn't meet the annual production requirements? For that matter how do you know that any other gun does? You cannot prove that they don't make 2k a year. Furthermore I believe it has been out for not more than a year and is on the USPSA Production gun list meaning they have certified that over 2k have been Produced. What evidence do you have to contradict this? Your intuition? Edited September 11, 2014 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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