Whoops! Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 First, let me say most people who read this probably won't notice the issue. Also, I'm approaching this from an informed and studied layman's standpoint, not an engineers. Recently, my transitions with handguns have been as fast as my muscles allow. This is fine with iron sights, but with my C-more it causes what I see with the dot to be interpreted differently on every target. I've attributed this to the refresh rate of the dot; essentially, with the extremely small amount of time my eyes see it on each target, I catch it in different phases of refresh (and thus brightness) on each target. This doesn't happen with my Trijicons, because the fiber optics allow light to be continually beamed onto the aiming point. Thus, they don't refresh like the C-mores, they just stay lit (well, they refresh at the speed of light anyway). Has anyone found a red dot which doesn't incorporate fiber optics and has what is perceivably an instant refresh rate while moving at high speeds? I think in order to answer this truly, you have to be able to experience the refresh rate issue I have with the C-more. Another red dot with a refresh rate that doesn't work for me is an Aimpoint (I have a feeling it may be one of the reasons the batteries last so long, but I'm completely guessing here) Thanks, Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Just as a FYI - the LEDs used in c-mores, Tascos, aimpoints, etc. are simple direct current devices and do not have a flicker or refresh rate like a TV or computer monitor. Basically, 3 volts of direct current hits the diode and the diode lights up and emits a steady light source. Unless there is an interruption in the voltage supply the light emitted remains constant. There may be some psycho-visual aspects at work here, or maybe it is the interplay of the diode/lens/sight body during the recoil cycle (they all flex) which alters the perceived brightness of the diode. Hope you work this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 What am I supposed to be looking for again?? I don't look at the dot I look at the target. The dot is just put in the way so to speak. Very refreshing thread though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 A visit to the eye doctor is probably in order. Dots are on, man. They stay on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) One out of 4 of the replies was useful, this might be a new record for keyboard commandos. Thanks bamboo, so my question then is, why do some red dots with the same size dot and brightness have so much longer battery life than others? Is it simply a more efficient interface? I know I've read an article detailing this before, but can't find it offhand right now... Do you think the perceived difference in brightness with a rapidly moving dot could be as a result of the color spectrum or wavelength being presented to my eye vs what is supplied with a different system (I.E. fiber optic)? Edited September 4, 2014 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Thanks bamboo, so my question then is, why do some red dots with the same size dot and brightness have so much longer battery life than others? Is it simply a more efficient interface? I know I've read an article detailing this before, but can't find it offhand right now... The same reason flashlights with the same led have longer battery life than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) So then, what is it that makes a flashlight flicker? Something to do with the interface between the battery, the circuits, and the LED... Do they flicker when you shake them? It depends on the quality of a flashlight I suppose... Perhaps there is something wrong with the connection on the old C-mores and old Aimpoint I've used and it causes flicker upon recoil or violent movement? What would I replace on a C-more to improve its connection between the battery and the diode? Edited September 4, 2014 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Incandescent lights flicker. LEDs are on. Light emitting diode. On/off. You may not like my advice, but it's not the dot. Get your eyes checked and I don't just mean visual acuity. A real eye doctor. DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) When an LED is on, then off, then on again in a short amount of time, I consider that flickering. Let me check the definition for this... Yeah, essentially flicker can mean a change in brightness or existence. So, either way would work. I don't like your suggestion because I, as a person, am perfect. I am the model human in terms of both health and appearance. But, especially appearance. I added a smiley to the other post in case you took it too seriously. Edited September 4, 2014 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 The dimming circuit could use pulse width modulation that may be perceived as flickering. PWM circuits are more efficient that linear circuits but I am not sure if any of the dot manufacturers use PWM. If the companies put battery life as top priority, they may do something like PWM. If they want a simple circuit with cheap parts, linear would be the way to go. In any case, it there is a issue with shooting with a C-more at speed, neither Max or Eric would be using one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Thanks a ton for that, I just learned that Aimpoint does indeed use Pulse Width Modulation which causes it to flash at a rate not detectable to the human eye. I agree that a C-more can be super duper fast. But, what makes us human if not for want of more? I don't believe C-more uses any Flashing in its system, and I'm thinking it may just be time for a refurb . . . or a new sight. Although, from reading this and doing some research, I just got a very interesting idea for my C-more Edited September 4, 2014 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I always notice the flicker (very quick on off cycle) on the new LED tail lights on some cars (normally the tail lights not the brake lights) when I move my eyes I see a series of dots not a streak like a normal light makes. I belive it is because they are pulsing the LED to give it two brightness' but I have never seen anything like that on my C-More so I don't think they are pulsed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 If your cmore is flickering I would have it checked out. Do you only have one or can you compare it to another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Whoops, is the dot leaving the glass during recoil? Then re-appear when the gun is done cycling? I could imagine that this could be perceived as "flicker". Unless the c-more is broken, the dot stays on. With a good grip, one can see the entire recoil impulse. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Hello: I guess I never thought about this hard? Look at the target bring the dot to the target, pull the trigger and now there is a hole in the target. Could it be you are flinching? Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Someone going as fast as they can physically move is not flinching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 As far as I know, florescent lights flicker, incandescent doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 As far as I know, florescent lights flicker, incandescent doesn't. Technically incandescents do as well. All the bulbs in your house are flickering at 60hz. Magnetic ballast driven florescents are just the most noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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