hitman Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 As a production, open, limited, l10 and single stack shooter the only change I would like to see is to change from 10 to 15 rounds in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 ...the only change I would like to see is to change from 10 to 15 rounds in production. I fail to understand why this hasn't happened yet but, at this point, I have lost all faith. I guess is another way in which USPSA chooses to be different from the rest of the IPSC world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Let's just put an asterisk by their name in match results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I started Uspsa not long ago and was pumped I had a G19 with RMR and threaded barrel and had under cut the trigger guard. I met a couple local guys that said to come out and give it a try, they said read the rule book and come out to a safety brief and you're good to go. I read the whole book and was like WTF division can I even shoot this gun? Sure I had other guns but have been shooting that one the most at the time and was comfortable with it. Deciding open was my only choice I youtubed some open videos and it was not very comforting knowing I was going to be shooting this production gun with a red dot against these guys. Would I have had an advantage? Would having a production optic division available be a better introduction to the sport? For me, ya at the time but I would have still ended up in limited where I am now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 At this point if I jumped in and shot production I would not grab the red dot but I would rather shoot a different glock because for me on a gun without a comp it is slower than irons. I also think there are a lot of aging shooters that would prefer a dot but struggle with irons because they don't want to deal with blast from a major comped gun so they are kind of stuck and will be done with the game when they can no longer focus on a front sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 ...I had a G19 with RMR and threaded barrel and had under cut the trigger guard. Switching the threaded barrel for an OEM one would have been a fairly easy fix to make it comply with the currently proposed Production Optic rules but the undercut trigger guard could not be just as easily fixed to make it comply with the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 ...they don't want to deal with blast from a major comped gun... They can always shoot Open Minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I know, but it's hard to argue that open minor isn't a clear disadvantage, whereas for me personally a dot on a production gun is not an advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I know, but it's hard to argue that open minor isn't a clear disadvantage... I most certainly agree. Nonetheless, we should also take into account that, for some shooters, the limitations in competitive advantage has more to do with physical ability rather than equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) I shoot Production, Limited, and Lim10. Aging eyes (and everything else ) and spectacles adapted to the distance of the sights. Not complaining, it is what it is. Looks like the argument of whether it's Just For Fun vs. To Be Competitive keeps going back and forth. If it's about fun, what's the diff? If it's about competition,I still think PO would end up having the same hierarchy of skill we see in every Division, and when a couple of GMs classify in PO everybody will end up being pretty much where they are in classification. In Open, the "PO" folks will own their own level and can have bragging rights vs the other PO folks. And they can use all the gun mods they want, with much less restriction than Prod (including the hicaps that came with the gun, plus magwells, lightened slides, etc.). Edited August 16, 2014 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I am back in Prod after shooting Open for a few years. Open stuff is sold. It just doesn't interest me anymore. Once my eyes get so bad I can't see the sights, I'll stop shooting if there isn't a a PO division. Granted my eyes will probably be fine for another 10 yrs or so, but... I won't shoot a PO gun on Open. Will finish too far behind others I was soundly beating 3 months ago. Shooting won't be fun once that happens. Once the equipment becomes the difference, screw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I know, but it's hard to argue that open minor isn't a clear disadvantage, whereas for me personally a dot on a production gun is not an advantage But being old and having crappy vision is also a clear disadvantage. So what? I personally can't stand the noise of open guns, so my plan when I get even older than my current 53 years is to just put a red-dot sight on a 6" limited gun and call it good. Sure I'll be at a disadvantage compared to younger faster better shooters with real open guns who practice more, but it will still be me shooting the same equipment every week, so I'll be able to gauge my own performance effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I won't shoot a PO gun on Open. Will finish too far behind others I was soundly beating 3 months ago. Shooting won't be fun once that happens. Once the equipment becomes the difference, screw it. that's an interesting perspective, but one I don't share. I already know that if I'm *close* to a limited or open shooter, then I still get bragging rights cuz i'm shooting 10-rounds and minor. I don't really stress over finishing behind someone with faster equipment. I just try to narrow the gap by practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 As a production, open, limited, l10 and single stack shooter the only change I would like to see is to change from 10 to 15 rounds in production. ^^^^ This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 As a production, open, limited, l10 and single stack shooter the only change I would like to see is to change from 10 to 15 rounds in production.^^^^ This! I've been seeing this mentioned a lot on various forums and Facebook but it's not even on the agenda for consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I personally can't stand the noise of open guns, so my plan when I get even older than my current 53 years ,, Wait till you get to 66 years,welded for 20 + years ,it gets even harder! But when I do beat you or anyone I can tell them you just got by an old man with bad eyesight ,,,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I don't shoot production so I guess I don't have a say,but for the list of production shooters that's growing all the time,I don't see a problem that needs fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarmyaviator Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 USPSA always retains the option - If ain't broke keep fixing it until it is. I don't shoot production so I guess I don't have a say,but for the list of production shooters that's growing all the time,I don't see a problem that needs fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 ...the only change I would like to see is to change from 10 to 15 rounds in production. I fail to understand why this hasn't happened yet but, at this point, I have lost all faith. I guess is another way in which USPSA chooses to be different from the rest of the IPSC world. Do you want the rest of the IPSC production rules as well? I know I don't. I currently shoot LTD and don't want their rule set because it's a PITA to RO their matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I for one don't want IPSC's 5# trigger in Production I also like the idea of 10 rounds as it requires reloads which separate skill levels, but..... I can see people's preference for 15 rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I can see people's preference for 15 rounds If this idea gains some traction, which it seems to be doing, I would prefer to not use a number but instead say load to magazine capacity. My M&P 40 can load 15 but my M&P 9 can load 17. I don't want to give up those two rounds just because everyone says load 15 in the magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 We should just add a claimer rule to Production. You can shoot whatever you want off the list, but if you win a match, anyone at the match can buy your gun from you for MSRP. I wonder how many people would put a $200 trigger in a $600 gun with that rule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I can see people's preference for 15 rounds If this idea gains some traction, which it seems to be doing, I would prefer to not use a number but instead say load to magazine capacity. My M&P 40 can load 15 but my M&P 9 can load 17. I don't want to give up those two rounds just because everyone says load 15 in the magazine. This is actually a much better idea than a 15 round "limit". The "limit" should be whatever the normal mag cap is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) I can see people's preference for 15 rounds If this idea gains some traction, which it seems to be doing, I would prefer to not use a number but instead say load to magazine capacity. My M&P 40 can load 15 but my M&P 9 can load 17. I don't want to give up those two rounds just because everyone says load 15 in the magazine. This is actually a much better idea than a 15 round "limit". The "limit" should be whatever the normal mag cap is... so it will turn into an equipment race and make some nice guns (like production .40 guns, for example) obsolete overnight? I guess that makes sense (not really). We have a division where you can load to mag capacity already, 2 of them, in fact. Edited August 17, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhett45acp Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 We should just add a claimer rule to Production. You can shoot whatever you want off the list, but if you win a match, anyone at the match can buy your gun from you for MSRP. I wonder how many people would put a $200 trigger in a $600 gun with that rule... Is the Hi-Point C9 on the list??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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