rtp Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Just wondering what balance points you all have found between main/hammer spring weights and specific primers, along with which mods? I found my fully polished, extended firing pin, reduced FP spring, SRS, RRK, CGW race hammer, reduced trigger return spring equipped CZ SP01 (Tactical, not that it should matter) seems to be having an occasional light strike with the 11.5# main spring. I'm saying seems at this point as I've shot one match fine, followed by a fair amount of load testing (~300+ rounds), some of which was with harder Fiocchi primers, but mostly MagTechs and some WSPs. Considering the contents of my current primer supply, I could go for quite some time on WSPs and MagTechs, but not so much if I 'needed' to go to Federals only. I had 2 light strikes out of ~300 rounds, which had good looking primer strikes, but no bang. Second strike set them off. I may need to run some more rounds through it, but wondering what you guys are seeing running lighter main springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Did you polish the sides of the hammer and the corresponding spots on the frame? the hammer strut? inside the pin holes? Of those primers I've only used WSP and I didn't get any light strikes with the 11.5# hammer spring, are you seating them all the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Also check the inside of the firing pin hole for machining ridges and polish them out. Polish everything that moves/rubs. Seat the primers deep enough that they start to flatten. I've had no problems with either Federal or Winchester primers with the 8500 spring in a SP01 Shadow Target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 Did you polish the sides of the hammer and the corresponding spots on the frame? the hammer strut? inside the pin holes? Of those primers I've only used WSP and I didn't get any light strikes with the 11.5# hammer spring, are you seating them all the way? I did. Polished the firing pin channel as well. I did not polish the frame where the hammer can slide across; that's a good one to note. It's possible I got a few higher than usual primers in the mix, which is why I was asking for your guys info to back me up as 'sounds typical' or 'investigate further.' I've got some practice time coming at a local range get together this weekend, will load up some more using only WSP and MSP and see how it goes. I don't typically get high primers except once in a while on the Fiocchis, as the WSP and MSPs are much lower effort to seat, by comparison. @shadow - the FP hole is, well, damned tiny - what are you using to polish that? I've used pipe cleaners with some light polish to polish inside retaining pin holes, or rolled up polishing cloth or high grit sand-paper, but that hold is quite small.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I use a needle file to remove the ridges, then wrap wet/dry 400/600/1000 around the needle file handle to polish. Straighten a paper clip or use the long end of a allen wrench to rub inside the firing pin hole to feel if its rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsoncustom Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I run the 11.5lb spring with 100% secuss so far but the toughest primers I've used is wins. Still need to polished the firing pin channel but other than that everything is polished. Also running the cgw extended firing pin and reduced spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 Thanks, Shadow, will give that a try if my next outing has any 'light strikes' > 0. The MagTech primers sure feel like WSPs running through my press, and I've seen others comment they're very similar with respect to lighting them off. My understanding is that while the CGW race hammer isn't Production legal, I thought it was slightly heavier than the OE or Shadow hammers, which would make it more reliable in lighting off primers. Going to chalk it up as 'unknown cause as of yet,' and monitor the next 300-500 rounds through it, and try only shooting the WSP or Magtechs for that # of rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsoncustom Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 ? It was my understanding that a light hammer was more reliable with lighter hammer springs. More of a fast whack than a thump. Not sure tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I run the 11.5lb spring with 100% secuss so far but the toughest primers I've used is wins. Still need to polished the firing pin channel but other than that everything is polished. Also running the cgw extended firing pin and reduced spring. Same deal here. 100% reliable with the aforementioned setup. Ive run CCI's and WSP's with absolutely no issues. 100% and ALOT of rounds down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankYa Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I run the 11.5lb spring with 100% secuss so far but the toughest primers I've used is wins. Still need to polished the firing pin channel but other than that everything is polished. Also running the cgw extended firing pin and reduced spring. Same deal here. 100% reliable with the aforementioned setup. Ive run CCI's and WSP's with absolutely no issues. 100% and ALOT of rounds down range. +1 on the set up. I've been running CCI over the past six months (6-7k rounds) and ZERO light strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 ? It was my understanding that a light hammer was more reliable with lighter hammer springs. More of a fast whack than a thump. Not sure tho. Although some guys like to oversimplify it, this is a complex physics problem, I found it easier to just start chopping hammers and shooting them I can tell you this: there is such a thing as too light where the hammer bounces off the FP and causes light strikes. But you're correct, in theory a lighter hammer should have more kinetic energy than a heavy one given the same hammer spring. There must be a reason all those fancy 2011s have chopped up hammers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Also check the inside of the firing pin hole for machining ridges and polish them out. Polish everything that moves/rubs. Seat the primers deep enough that they start to flatten. I've had no problems with either Federal or Winchester primers with the 8500 spring in a SP01 Shadow Target. yep, I agree that it was high primers. the very fact that they fired with a second strike tells me that the first strike just seated it properly, OR that the primer was faulty, OR that there was some dirt in there that caused a less than ideal strike first time. My money is on primer seating. as shadow said I seat mine so deep that they have a tool mark on them from the primer ram. especially federals, they almost get crushed! I recently went back to all CZUB parts but with a very light hammer spring (was an old 13lb from CZUB but now tested at 9lb!) and that's with CZ comp hammer, extended FP + spring from CZ UB and even that set-up sets off all my federal and murom primers. it's an IPSC gun so nothing is polished as such (ie no mirror finish) but I did remove some of the worse tool marks and gave bits a light stoning. Yours with an 11.5lb spring should be setting off just about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 ? It was my understanding that a light hammer was more reliable with lighter hammer springs. More of a fast whack than a thump. Not sure tho. Although some guys like to oversimplify it, this is a complex physics problem, I found it easier to just start chopping hammers and shooting them I can tell you this: there is such a thing as too light where the hammer bounces off the FP and causes light strikes. But you're correct, in theory a lighter hammer should have more kinetic energy than a heavy one given the same hammer spring. There must be a reason all those fancy 2011s have chopped up hammers... In light of that i feel like i should mention that i ran my gun with the "slim" CZ custom hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Also check the inside of the firing pin hole for machining ridges and polish them out. Polish everything that moves/rubs. Seat the primers deep enough that they start to flatten. I've had no problems with either Federal or Winchester primers with the 8500 spring in a SP01 Shadow Target. yep, I agree that it was high primers. the very fact that they fired with a second strike tells me that the first strike just seated it properly, OR that the primer was faulty, OR that there was some dirt in there that caused a less than ideal strike first time. My money is on primer seating. as shadow said I seat mine so deep that they have a tool mark on them from the primer ram. especially federals, they almost get crushed! I recently went back to all CZUB parts but with a very light hammer spring (was an old 13lb from CZUB but now tested at 9lb!) and that's with CZ comp hammer, extended FP + spring from CZ UB and even that set-up sets off all my federal and murom primers. it's an IPSC gun so nothing is polished as such (ie no mirror finish) but I did remove some of the worse tool marks and gave bits a light stoning. Yours with an 11.5lb spring should be setting off just about anything. Muroms = you're shooting Tula and Wolfs with a ~9# hammer spring? Will pay a bit more attention on high primers - comparatively speaking, I think it's almost difficult to get a high primer on WSP or Magtechs, but the Fiocchis I was loading for a while = different story. I may have gotten the hammer relative weights reversed, but my understanding was the CGW race hammer should help in lighting off primers vs a stock or Shadow hammer? I may be off on that one, but enough of you guys have confirmed I should be able to light off nearly anything at 11.5#, which I believed to be the case and have now had confirmed. Thanks, all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanniek71 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I run the 11.5# as well and have had 0 FTF issues with any ammo i have run through the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 yep, the spring is a very old CZ spring. it tested between a 8lb and a 11.5lb CGW springs (I have to run CZ springs in my match gun as I shoot IPSC). it's about 9lb. I have heard the murom's are the same as wolf and tula, but the murom branded primers don't seem to be quite as hard or as prone to duds as the ones sold under the wolf brand that you guys get. They are definitely harder than a win and much harder than a federal (which is what I use most). but yeah, I agree with an extended FP and reduced FPS, comp hammer, 11.5 spring and a clean gun you should have no trouble setting off the fiocchis etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjei Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 BeerBaron....I also play IPSC....do you guys get your springs checked for brands ????? Love CZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 As a general rule, if a primer goes on the second strike, it was probably not seated correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 BeerBaron....I also play IPSC....do you guys get your springs checked for brands ????? Love CZ I've never had my springs checked (or any kind of gun check for that matter) but you might get one at a world shoot or other level 4. I doubt anyone could show me the difference between say a CGW spring and a wolf spring or a CZ UB spring... but the last thing you want is to win a division or grade and have someone protest you or even have a cloud over it. So I make sure any gun I take to a match is 100% compliant with the division rules. it just makes life easy. I tried CGW springs and they were nice, but to be honest didn't 'feel' any different to the CZ UB springs which are easy to get here. I just figured better to set up the gun back how I need it for division compliance and shoot it that way. just about all the CGW parts you can get from CZ UB and they are basically the same (the CGW stuff is nicer quality though for sure). you can get: range of main springs and recoil springs from CZ UB extended firing pin and reduced firing pin spring comp hammer with very short hammer hooks (wide version and narrow version, shadow can use either, mine has the narrow). steel guide rod if you want one shock buffs if you want them short reset disconnector (aka pre-b disco) so they are all CZ UB, and therefore all IPSC production legal. the USPSA guys have some more freedoms to chose those same parts but from CZC or CGW, but at the end of the day the end result is very close. I've tried both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkoenig Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I have a 13lb mainspring, extended firing pin, and reduced power firing pin spring. The only thing I've had trouble setting off were some S&B small rifle primers I tried to use when primers were scarce. Every other brand of pistol and small rifle primer has worked 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 8.5# CGW spring with Federal primers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1valdez Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Does anybody knows what is the stock main spring that comes with the Sp01 Target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hangin Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Atlas and beerbaron already said it and I agree. It was most likely high primer seating. 8.5 main spring = federal primers. 11.5 main spring = CCI, WIN, REM primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selecw Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 With an 8.5lb spring I am restricted to Federal primers. But never get light strikes on them. I have the extended FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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