Dillon 45 dies creating no-go issues

[Butterpuc]

I have recently switched to Dillon 45 dies. Shown is a photo of 7 no-gos out of ~250 good reloads. This is only occurring with the Dillon Dies. Do I have a setting wrong?

[Hi-Power Jack]

Do you have the right size pins to hold the cartridge case in place for stage 2, especially?

Is the shell plate tight?

This is not being caused by the dies, but by the case alignment, I'd guess.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Hi-Power Jack

[Butterpuc]

Do you have the right size pins to hold the cartridge case in place for stage 2, especially?

Is the shell plate tight?

This is not being caused by the dies, but by the case alignment, I'd guess.

case alignment has crossed my mind... However, this happens on two different presses - a Hornady LNL AP and a Dillon 650. These photos are from the recent batch out of the Hornady LNL but the same thing happens out of the Dillon 650 just no photos. Again, only with the Dillon dies, not my original Lee dies.

[james5m]

Maybe not enough bell,,Are there all the same headstamp?

[808win]

Which station/die is this happening at? What kind of bullets are those?

[Butterpuc]

Maybe not enough bell,,Are there all the same headstamp?

They are mixed head stamps, but I consistently use mixed head stamps. I did once before sort brass by head stamp and couldn't tell enough difference to warrant the effort.

Which station/die is this happening at? What kind of bullets are those?

These particular ones are 200gr RN BBI. I have had the same issue with 230gr FMJ Zeros, just no pictures.

[Too_Slow]

It is a problem with alignment on the powder die. It catches the edge of the brass when it is supposed to go into the die to bell it.

Brian

[Sarge]

It is a problem with alignment on the powder die. It catches the edge of the brass when it is supposed to go into the die to bell it.

Brian

looks like powder funnel damage to me as well.

[808win]

So this is happening at your powder dispensing station?

[fishsticks]

It is a problem with alignment on the powder die. It catches the edge of the brass when it is supposed to go into the die to bell it.

Brian

looks like powder funnel damage to me as well.

I had this problem once on my 550B. Pull the powder funnel and make sure it is clean. Wipe it with a little case lube on the outside only. Also like others have said, make sure your shell plate is aligned and tight. Finally, use some case lube on the brass.

[Butterpuc]

I loaded 200 more rounds last night with no issues. However, I did reduce my bell just a little, thinking it may have been catching due to poor alignment. I will load more later this week and keep an eye on it.

[dillon]

Push down on the edge of the shellplate. If it feels springy, then tighten it a bit more. On the 650, be sure to adjust the station two tab to be within .002-.004" of touching the case.

Be sure to flare the case mouth at least .010"-.020" larger than a sized, unflared case.

[Butterpuc]

Push down on the edge of the shellplate. If it feels springy, then tighten it a bit more. On the 650, be sure to adjust the station two tab to be within .002-.004" of touching the case.

Be sure to flare the case mouth at least .010"-.020" larger than a sized, unflared case.

I checked my "bell" it measures ~0.035" more than the completed tapered round. The expanded rim is ~0.498-0.504 versus the tapered case at ~0.463

[808win]

At what point (station/die) does the damage to the case mouth occur? 1. At belling/powder drop? 2. At bullet seating? 3. At crimping?

[Butterpuc]

At what point (station/die) does the damage to the case mouth occur? 1. At belling/powder drop? 2. At bullet seating? 3. At crimping?

100% sure it is before bullet seating. I try to tell myself I am going to pay attention to each case, but sure enough, as soon as I get into the "reloading groove"... I look down as I am placing a bullet into the mouth of the case and see a case like the photo above.

Last night I reloaded another 200. The first batch of 100 had no issues. The second batch had about 3 cases that were damaged. Only one of the three I saw before it was expanded, it is possible that this could be happening at the sizing and de-priming station... maybe.

as mentioned before, it is certainly before bullet seating. This happens on 2 different presses a 650xl and a Hornady LNL AP, with slight differences in die setups. The Dillon and LNL both have the dillon size / de-prime in station 1. The Dillon expands and drops powder in station 2. The LNL has the dillon size / de-prime in station 1, a Hornady expander in station 2, and drops powder in station 3. By that trouble shooting, the only common part of the equation is station 1 the dillon size and de-prime die.

[808win]

Thanks. I was going to refer you to the following thread, but you said that it's happening on your LNL too.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=161319

Edited April 8, 2014 by 808win

[Henny]

Although it looks more like damage from not being aligned in station 2, check to make sure the case is being fully inserted in station 1. If the case is not fully inserted OR if the case is slightly pulled out when the case insert slide goes back due to old case lube or something else being on the slide, this could cause decapping pin can be catching on the case mouth and denting the mouth as it re aligns the case in the shell plate to continue into the sizing die.

[Henny]

I'm curious, do you have the needle bearing mod on your reloader? For the short time I used the bearing, it seemed I'd have occasional alignment issues and ejection issues.

I took the bearing off when I noticed that most of the powder sloshing motion from the shell plate is due to the camming pin not being properly adjusted - as in the case is being inserted too soon or too late. Did you ever notice how the shell plate does not jerk when there's no case being inserted? This is why. The other thing that causes the jerking is the index ball hitting the bottom of the shell plate. The common fix for this is clipping the spring.

For me the needle bearing caused more problems than it solved. The bearing does a good job of covering up my failure for properly having the machine timed, but still caused problems. With grease on the underside of the bolt head, properly adjusted shell plate tension and properly adjusted camming pin, the bearing is not needed.

[Steve RA]

Have a case at each station and loosen the lock ring on the dies, run brass up into dies all the way and then tighten down the lock rings. This gets it all aligned at once.

[Butterpuc]

I finally got it figured out today! After ruining another 10 cases or so, while loading my first 100 of the batch this morning.

I can't explain why it happened on the Dillon 650 with Dillon Dies, or why it seemed to start after I switched to Dillon dies on my Hornady LNL. To the Mods, this thread should probably should be moved to the "other reloading equipment" forum, and probably renamed "Hornady powder measure setup issue". I'm stupid, is what it really should say.

I noticed that everytime this happened, I always felt there was a little to much friction as I was raising the ram / lowering the handle but could never find it. I did finally narrow it down to the powder measure. I removed all the dies and powder from the powder measure and tried to see if I could create the issue repeatedly, and I could. If the measure rotated to low, it would actually wedge itself in the frame of the powder measure taking quite a bit of force to raise the rotating arm. Which in turn put a lot of force on the mouth of the case and deformed the mouth just enough to create my issue. So after raising the down setting a little (keeping it from contacting the frame do the powder measure), I have had zero issues, in the 700 rounds loaded this morning.

[benos]

Have a case at each station and loosen the lock ring on the dies, run brass up into dies all the way and then tighten down the lock rings. This gets it all aligned at once.

Yes, make that a general rule to always do!