Do you reload for friends?

[Canman]

Just wondering how you feel about reloading for your buddies? Seems when word gets out that you reload it's only a matter of time before they ask. I really have no problem doing it for a very few of my friends. They really don't shoot that much and I enjoy time at the bench. I don't charge them anything just the price of components. Only thing I told my reloading mentor and he told me I shouldn't cause of liability issues. I see his point. I'll only do it for a few.

[Sarge]

I have done it for a few close friends and shooting buddies. Yeah, there is some liability involved but we talked about that before I helped them out. I usually charge a minimal fee to load up ammo such as a k of primers or 500 bullets or something along those lines. But like I said not for just anybody. Funny thing is, I would never trust anyone to load ammo for me though!

[Noximus03]

I do, but only for a very few people that I trust. They pay me cash for it, sure, but it's not that much. Not trying to make money doing it. I do make them sign a release of liability before giving them each batch, though, and they understand.

[rtp]

Guys, be careful here..nothing wrong IMO in what anyone's said, but isnt it illegal to sell your reloads w/out an FFL, or am I off here?

If so.....of course none of you are charging $, only bartering for components etc., right?

Edited April 5, 2014 by rtp

[Hi-Power Jack]

I did ONCE.

Never again, except for relatives

[Retread1911]

My answer has always been no based on the completely remote possibility that the manufacture of ammo without the proper paper BS could come up.

My answer has been for the few that have asked has been come on over and I will explain the process and let up you use my equipment just as soon as you read this manual. (Currently the Lyman 29th ed).

In the 30 years I have been reloading I have only had 2 read the book and come reload with me. For those people they get to use my components for replacement cost and load away on my equipment.

Retread

[jmorris]

Yes, if someone is shooting one of my guns it is with my ammunition. If someone makes off with some to fire in their own gun, it's not a problem with me but I do not sell ammunition to anyone, as I don't have the FFL to do it legally.

Edited April 5, 2014 by jmorris

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

I've helped a close buddy reload on my press but my buddy is the one that actually pulls the lever. So in all actuality he is the manufacture not I.

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[The Law]

I have a friend that inherited a lot of components from his father. He doesn't reload so he's given me the components and I give him loaded ammo. He's a firearms instructor as well, so I get lots of free training in exchange. Overall, it's a good deal for me.

As for the legality (needing a FFL), here is what the ATF says:

Q: Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer?

Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]

The operative words there are "livelihood" and "profit." If you are reloading for others for just the price of components, bartering, or otherwise not making a living at it, you do not need a FFL. If you are not in the business of making and selling ammo, you should be fine.

[rgkeller]

Good way to ruin your life.

Another good way is to post about it on a public forum.

[rtp]

I have a friend that inherited a lot of components from his father. He doesn't reload so he's given me the components and I give him loaded ammo. He's a firearms instructor as well, so I get lots of free training in exchange. Overall, it's a good deal for me.

As for the legality (needing a FFL), here is what the ATF says:

Q: Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer?

Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]

The operative words there are "livelihood" and "profit." If you are reloading for others for just the price of components, bartering, or otherwise not making a living at it, you do not need a FFL. If you are not in the business of making and selling ammo, you should be fine.

This is my understanding, and am also hoping that they do not at some point try to argue bartering == 'for profit,' even if $ is not exchanged.

I hope my initial comment on the legality was taken the way it's intended - I think we should be able to do as we like up until the point we can harm or interfere with the rights of others, and have zero issues with someone 'selling' reloads to a buddy, just wanted to make sure people are aware of the (potential) legality issue, and not posting anything to potentially cause them any problems.

[njl]

I'm not a lawyer, and not the ATF...but I think this comes down to whether you're "selling" reloads for profit (i.e. in an attempt to make $) or just trying to cover expenses (break even...and then there's the question of whether you can charge a little something for your time?). The combined legal and liability issues make doing this a pretty bad idea in most cases.

[RePete]

I'm not a lawyer, and not the ATF...but I think this comes down to whether you're "selling" reloads for profit (i.e. in an attempt to make $) or just trying to cover expenses (break even...and then there's the question of whether you can charge a little something for your time?). The combined legal and liability issues make doing this a pretty bad idea in most cases.

It doesn't matter whether for profit or not, if money changes hands then you're a manufacturer.

I don't/won't load for anyone. It's not worth the agro.

[SilverBolt]

I am a new loader. At this point I will not load for anyone. I do not want the possibility of something going bad. Squib, double, etc. I would feel bad if I was responsible for blowing up a gun or worse hurting someone. So far I have turned out and shot approximate 10k rounds of 9mm without a single failure. It only take one round to ruin your day.

[RDA]

So far I have turned out and shot approximate 10k rounds of 9mm without a single failure. It only take one round to ruin your day.

Good point but 10,000 rounds without any issues, that is pretty good work I would say, commendable. I have made a similar amount but haven't shot it all.

[kneelingatlas]

My shooting buddy and I were given a 550 by a co worker and since he's a bachelor and I have three small kids, we set up the press at his house; we generally load together, taking turns at the press, but on a few occasions time has been short and he's knocked out a few hundred rounds for me before a match. I feel pretty comfortable shooting ammo he loads, but I'm not sure I would shoot the reloads of a stranger.

I understand the costs of getting set up are a real barrier to entry for new reloaders to I always suggest they find a friend with a press, buy some components and trade them for reloading lessons. You crank the handle all night while a seasoned reloader looks over your shoulder, it sounds like a win-win to me

[Studlee]

Only for a few close friends but they also reload their own on my press.

[Lifeislarge]

I know two guys who have sued the PANTS off their BEST FRIENDS. Injuries, a lawyer, and money, can change a person in an instant. These days I'm afraid to loan my neighbor a cup of sugar lest he gets an ant infestation.

[glynnm45]

Nope, to much liability and no upside at all.

[hops]

I do not reload for anyone but myself. The liability is huge, even if they sign a waiver. I have reloaded 14,800 rounds in the last 10 months with only a single problem, (high primer didn't fire). Even with that track record I would not give my loads to an amatuer.

I also have to take into account that reloading components are scarce, and do I really like any of my friends that much? Seriously, if it comes down to I get to shoot or I sit at home without any ammo, there is no way they are getting any. Haha.

But seriously, all of my friends that really shoot all have their own presses and they shoot a lot. The rest of my friends have guns but they barely shoot 200 rounds a year.

200 rounds or less a year? Why bother even owning a gun. They are made to be worn out, not rusted from lack of use.

[njl]

I'm not a lawyer, and not the ATF...but I think this comes down to whether you're "selling" reloads for profit (i.e. in an attempt to make $) or just trying to cover expenses (break even...and then there's the question of whether you can charge a little something for your time?). The combined legal and liability issues make doing this a pretty bad idea in most cases.

It doesn't matter whether for profit or not, if money changes hands then you're a manufacturer.

I don't/won't load for anyone. It's not worth the agro.

If you read the answer on the ATF faq, "...selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit.", clearly they don't have a problem with you selling reloads at cost (just covering expenses), but if you're doing it trying to make $, you need proper licensing.

As has been covered, selling reloads to friends and not having suitable insurance is a recipe for ruining friendships and possibly your finances. Its funny though...people who don't reload don't think much of it, but those of us who do are very reluctant to use anyone else's reloads because we know how easy it is to really screw up and how badly things can go if for instance Bob's reloads accidentally substituted Titegroup for H335 in his .223 reloads, or even just used the right powder but a charge suitable for a 115gr 9mm bullet in a 147gr bullet load.