Dillon Square Deal B

[Duane Thomas]

The worst thing about the SDB was that the primer return springs would constantly break and in turn flood the press and the bench and the floor with primers. As mentioned previously, disassembly and cleanup for this occurrence was a time-consuming hassle.

I recently broke the primer return spring on my Square Deal. And this is an old machine, about 20 years. It's not the first primer return spring I've broken. I found, when I got my replacement from Dillon, it didn't work. The replacement spring was much longer than the original, thus when looped in place wouldn't return the slide. Called up Dillon, the friendly, helpful customer service guy said, "Wow, you must have a really old machine." Turns out the problem they had with primer return springs breaking was because the old springs were so short they got really stretched hard when the primer slide was operated. To solve the problem, Dillon lengthened the spring and at the same time moved that little downward projecting rod around which the spring wraps forward. According to Dillon they very rarely have a primer slide return spring break with the new system because the longer spring doesn't get worked nearly as hard. 'Course that means the old primer assembly won't work with the new spring. They sent me a new primer assembly free of charge. Problem solved.

[kevin c]

I had the exact same problem that Duane described, though Dillon sent me the new primer assembly as soon as I called them asking for a new spring, explaining just what the good Mr. Thomas has related.

[bottomc]

I started with a SDB and have been very happy with it for about 10 years. Only a few minor problems that most have noted here. The only real interesting problem was a timing problem between the shell late and the primer ram. The shell plate would hang up on the edge of the primer cup. Tried the adjustment,,,still NG. Called Dillon, explained problem, they said the shaft on the primer ran was BENT!!!

and replaced it.

Went on to buy a used 650.

The 650 is just for 40 and the SDB is used for everything else (4 other calibers).

Both presses are great but each has its peculiarities!

[Harmon]

FYI the 40 caliber dies size all the way down, taking even the worst Glock brass bakc to spec.

I do like the square deal though

for the 45 acp i like shooting el cheapo lead bullets and i find that my loads are much more reliable when i use the Lee FCD..so i will probably load 45s on a 550

[benos]

In addition, the lower web section (last .010-.015") of any case was never intended to be resized, as doing so not only significantly shortens the life of the brass, but it makes the loaded round more dangerous if it is fired in a non-fully-supported chamber.

be

Hey Brian,

does this include roll-sized cases, or just those done with the "conventional" resizing process?

Both.

There's a few factors involved. The web section of a case is thicker than the rest of the case because a rupture in that area is the most dangerous. (Then say a split neck, for example, where the gasses would never reach outside of the barrel or chamber.) If the case head ruptures or separates it's almost always a disaster. So cases are made thicker in that area in the hope of avoiding that. So the last thing you want to do is weaken that part of the case by:

a. Shooting a high-pressure round in an non-fully supported chamber (.40 in a Glock), then

b. Work-harden the brass by resizing it in its most critical area.

It's a dangerous work-around no matter how you look at it.

be

[sorry, I let this thread drift get out of control. ]

[gm iprod]

I fully agree with Brian, I sell both Dillon and Glock and we see this problem weekly.

The SDB actually sizes the cases just a fraction slimmer than Std Dillon 7/8' x 14 TPI dies. I have found the same applies to 38Super and SuperComp.

We have had problems with Norinco 45CP and 9mm brass when reloading. They make their brass so poorly that we get significant problems with the case head, (exactly where Brian indicated) starting to go a little shiny only after one reload. This is the brass moving and being resized, the cases are so thin in this area that we used to advise extreeme caution reloading Norinco brass in a Glock or in the case of 45ACP, anything Colt alike and without a fully supported chamber.

We now advise that the local scrap merchant will pay $1.25 per KG for brass.

If you have bought a good handgun and spend another $400+ on reloading equipment, a few extra bucks on new brass for your baby is well worth it. Then it's all your fault, and you habe no complaints.

[mobocracy]

Converting calibers on a SDB on a regular basis is a pain. The good thing is they can be resold fairly easily, so if you upgrade and don't want to keep it, you don't lose a lot on the SDB.

I just sold my SDB on Ebay and used the funds to buy a 650. SDBs *are* easy to sell, so if you're unsure if reloading is for you, you won't be making a terrible mistake buying one. I loaded 6-7000 rounds of 10mm, .45 ACP, .44 Magnum and .44 Special on my SDB and never had any problems with it.

Some random thoughts on SDB vs. 650:

SDB is far simpler. I converted my 650 last night from .44 Mag to .32 ACP (including setup of the .32 dies) and it took easily two hours. Some of that is the die setup and my caution/lack of familiarity with the 650, but I think a lot of it is that the 650 is a much more complicated machine. I don't think caliber conversions on the SDB were that bad, if you had toolheads for each caliber. Without toolheads, it would be a big pain, but so would any press.

I think the priming mechanism on the SDB is far superior in terms of ease of operation than the 650s. An unused primer at #2 on the SDB stays there, not taking a ride on the disc. A primer in the magazine shows up on the next handle pull, not several handle pulls later.

The SDB proprietary die sets is a problem if you grow adventurous and want to load non-standard calibers; I think Dillon should come up with some way to make other calibers available to the SDB on a custom order basis. But it's not like standard dies open the door on the 650 to every caliber imaginable, either, since you still rely on proprietary Dillon conversion kits, especially if you want to use the casefeeder. In some cases you can "wildcat" and get by using other caliber parts, but you also end up losing a lot of the automation in some cases (eg, rebated-rim cases).

I never had any problem resizing once-Glock-fired 10mm cases; presumably Glock barrels for 10mm suffer from the same problems as Glock barrels for 40S&W. My 10mm ammo off the SDB with those cases worked just fine in all 5 of my 10mm guns (S&W 1006/1066/610, Glock 29 w/KKM barrel, Kimber Stainless Target II).

I bought the XL 650 for the increase in loading efficiency that the electric casefeeder brings (I'd like to knock off a case of ammo in an evening, not 2-3), as well as for the ability to expand what I can reload (I'm pretty sure I can drop a .357 Sig barrel in my Glock 29 and maybe a 9x25 Dillon barrel in my Kimber 10mm).

But I never regret buying the SDB -- a great way to start loading, and I think in some ways a better press than the 650.

[Duane Thomas]

mobocracy,

Thanks for the info! All good stuff to know for a long-time SDB user who will probably be adding a 650 to the loading bench in the forseeable future.

[benos]

mobocracy,

Thanks for that informative post.

On 10mm brass - because of the higher pressures it is designed to handle, most 10mm brass is massively thicker in the web area. (A cross-section pic would eliminate all these words.) So 10 brass, fired in a non-fully supported chamber - especially at 40 cal pressures - should not have near the case bulging problem that 40 does.

be

[DEP44]

I bought my first reloader, a SDB, 10 years ago, and it has served me well. My findings:

Changeover from .357m to .38spl only requires a toolhead (not valid for you, but still...can't get easier and cheaper than that).

Primer return breaks often. Gotta have 'm in stock.

Easy to operate, changing from .357 to .44 (which includes going from small primers to large primers) doesn't take more than 5 minutes. I keep my SDB stuff in a fishing tackle box, making it very easy to swap parts.

I also own a 550B (currently only used for .308) and I like the less centered position of the 550 operating handle. More ergonomic. Especially .44 requires quite some force to operate on the SDB (Dillon advises lubing). Also, the 550 shellplate is easier to access, and there's way more room above the shellplate in case of manual intervention (or simple load developement).

I also *personally* prefer the manual index, I think it makes operating the handle more smooth. My SDB is (or has become) a little bumpy. The 550 feels more sturdy, but that's just a feeling. There's no play in the 550 handle and also not in the shellplate platform.

I've been thinking about getting rid of both, and buying a 650 in return, but to be honest, I shoot less than 500 rounds/month and I like to try different powders etc. Which results in small batches and changing calibers all the time. What I would like, is to be able to sit down and not having to take my right hand off the -roller- handle. I don't need a casefeeder at all, but I sure would enjoy the comfort, combined with a roller handle.

The little push to forward the shellplate for me outweighs the "harder" handle handling of auto-index, compared to the SDB. On the SDB I can feel the auto-index during operation of the handle.Never experienced the feel of a 650.

Until I got the 550, I didn't think reloading could get better than on a SDB. Having them both, I would never pick a SDB over a 550.

[R/T Performance]

I want a 650 for the case feeder but I bought a SDB a little more than a year ago.

Since I have loaded 4600 small primers and 500 large

At least a 1000 where bulged 40 cases and all chamberd and fired fine.

Clean brass can be had cheap for 40 cal I pay 6/500 and 9 shipping /1500.

Most matches I rarley pick up.

I recently aquired a 45 acp and found the win nt (Small primer 45acp brass)Works great if I don't want to swap primer size(It does suck up 10 minutes or so)I use win nt it's cheaper than regular 45acp sorted and saves time.

Buy case lube and the B will serve you fine but like others said I been looking at ar's so it is only a matter time before I up-grade.

[mobocracy]

mobocracy,

Thanks for that informative post.

You're welcome. I just thought I'd add my 10 cents while the obvious comparisons were fresh in my mind. The one thing I'd add is that I also think fine adjustments to the SDB dies are somewhat more accurate/easier since the delrin/plastic plate that "holds" the dies doesn't require a lock ring. I'm sure the 'standard' die lock ring tightening is a skill one gets better at, but it's still a tad tricky for fine adjustments (which is why Redding and others make micrometer-adjustable dies, I assume).

On 10mm brass - because of the higher pressures it is designed to handle, most 10mm brass is massively thicker in the web area. (A cross-section pic would eliminate all these words.) So 10 brass, fired in a non-fully supported chamber - especially at 40 cal pressures - should not have near the case bulging problem that 40 does.

I had always assumed that the cases were largely the same other than length, but I guess checking the Lyman Pistol & Revolver #2 next to me shows 10mm at about 8k CUP more than 40, so 10mm brass I guess had better be stronger!

When I got my Glock 29 I shot a box of Remington UMC 10mm through the stock barrel and did some comparisons between those fired cases and those fired through my S&W 1006 and 1066 -- the brass was a lot more buldged on the Glock stock barrel cases, but perhaps it doesn't reach the bulging of 40S&W. I switched to a KKM barrel anyway, and I could always tell when I'm sizing the Glock-fired Rem UMC cases I found at the range vs. the ones that went through my G29 -- the KKM-fired cases need far less sizing.

The one case I won't reload, though, are the very few DoubleTap cases that turn up.

[usmc1974]

Gotta disagree with you Carlos. Before I got my EGW I would take once fired that was mostly Glock fired and therefore bulged and run it through the SDB and it chambered fine in my Ruger KP94, my Para P16-40, etc. It also generally passed a Dillon chamber guage just fine.

Maybe I got lucky? Dunno. However I bought an EGW anyway just to be safe and when I get brass that is new to me it goes through the EGW (on an old single stage press) just to make sure.

+1 I reload glock brass on my SDB 9mm,40sw and 45acp it runs though all my other guns just fine. Geting the priming system to work right is a pain some times.But, Am thinking about a 650.

[gohuskers]

This is a great thread. I've had a SDB in 9mm for going on 15 years and like it. It's only drawback is that it's SMALL. Not a lot of space to move your hands around in there when loading a case or bullet - and I have small hands! I'm thinking long and hard about a 650 and it's only a matter of time. The casefeeder will be nice as will the ability to load .223 for the AR. A guy really can't for wrong with any of the dillon machines but the ability to expand reloading into rifle calibers is nice.

[8082011]

I've had my SDB for over 10 years and use it for .45 only. I use my 650 for loading .40 and 9mm

[trickpony]

I think I've decided to get a Square Deal B to load my 9mm ammo... Only plan to load 5000 or so rounds a year so the SDB should do the trick

[ilvwhtgrls]

I've had my square deal for a little over a month now and I've been extremely happy with it. The initial set up was about an hour and was fairly painless. The unit is really easy to use and to make adjustments on. The unit is a little small but not a big deal. I'd love to upgrade to a 650 with a case feeder one day but it might be a while.

[trickpony]

Yeah, I'm thinking with the $$$ I save from buying another 650 I'll get a bullet feeder for my 1050

[ParaGunner]

I just purchased a SDB for .40 and love it. I just recently was deciding if I should buy a GR-X push through sizing die and I'm not sure I'm going to now. I was sorting through my brass and picked out several .40 brass fired through Glocks and tried putting them in my Dillion .40 case guage and none of them would even go in half way. I ran these Glocked cases through the SDB sizing die then all of them easily dropped in the Dillion case guage. I noticed the SDB sizing die touches the shell plate when using it. I think I'm going to wait on the GR-X

I also used to load on my cousins 650 w\casefeeder the previous couple years and ocassionally had a jam from a bulged case. I have not been disappointed with the SDB at all and I'm glad i got it.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Roy Hess

[Kool Aid]

The SDB is a great press for someone who loads only pistol, doesn't want to spend too much time at the bench, and who isn't sure if they will take a liking to reloading. Mine paid for itself in approximately four months and has retained most of its value. It was my first press, and I have no regrets starting with a progressive machine that auto indexes. I don't like to spend long hours reloading, and I would have lost interest in the hobby almost immediately had I learned on a single-stage press. Progressive presses in general are for the mechanically inclined. I'd liken their complexity to that of a bicycle.

[B.H.M.]

I bought a SDB from BEnos and love it. It is set up for .40 (all I shoot) and works great. I have no experience changing calibers or primer setup. I adjusted it when I got it for my AOL and powder charge and check that every 100 rounds or so. I shoot a Tanfoglio which needs undersized brass so I have a RCBS single stage press with a Gizmo/U Die setup that I run the brass through first.

[JayJayJay]

So I should just get the 550?

[Alvarez Kelly]

So I should just get the 550?

That depends on what you intend to load? Pistol only? Maybe SDB will be for you. Do you have any dies now? Do you ever think you'll reload rifle rounds? If yes to either of the last two, you might want to get the 550. Either will crank out great ammo.

I think the 550 is a better first progressive press. Do you have experience with either?

Some things to chew on...

[JayJayJay]

So I should just get the 550?

That depends on what you intend to load? Pistol only? Maybe SDB will be for you. Do you have any dies now? Do you ever think you'll reload rifle rounds? If yes to either of the last two, you might want to get the 550. Either will crank out great ammo.

I think the 550 is a better first progressive press. Do you have experience with either?

Some things to chew on...

I am new and have never done any of this. I only plan on doing pistol .40 only, maybe 38 super a few years down the line. I have no equipment at all at this point. I want to save cash so maybe the SDB will be the one I get.

[benos]

More info here:

Dillon FAQ:

http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillonfaqs.html

“Which Dillon”:

http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html#which