mobocracy

Usually its very smooth, with the only real resistance being some slight downstroke resistance when sizing larger cases and the slightly perceptable resistence encountered when seating a primer. I noticed it less with yellow brass 9mm than I did with yellow 40s, but it is really bothersome with nickel 9s and .40s. Since I have a good supply of .40s right now I really should (item 87 on my "really should..." list) call Starline and possibly send my .40 powder die in and see if it makes a difference. I wonder if the relatively short 9mm and .40 cases require a sharper shoulder on the expander, thus causing it to go too deep, compounded by the stiffer nature of nickel cases.

I don't load 9mm or 40S&W much, but I've noticed in both calibers that the powder funnel is sticking in cases, making removal very stiff. I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure those calibers use a different powder funnel and I know for sure it's a different physical funnel as I buy and segregate my conversion kits by caliber even though there are some parts overlap. This isn't a problem I've had with any of the other calibers I've loaded (10mm, .44 Spl & Mag, .41 Mag, .45 Colt, .32 Auto, .45 Auto). I've tried lubing the cases (even though I use Dillon or Redding carbide dies), and even a dash of case lube on the powder funnel itself without any improvement. It's worse with nickel cases but is noticable with yellow brass as well. Strangely enough, I did run into this FAQ entry on Starline's web site. Burrs aren't an issue for me. Has anyone else seen this? It's annoying enough -- clunky press operation, spilled powder, etc -- that I am tempted to take up Starline on their offer.

For me, it's only really been a nuisance overall and typically only with size dies that aren't radiused. The worst is .32 ACP, but that caliber is so puny its annoying to load for many reasons. Even Redding won't make a custom radiused mouth die for it. Fortunately I only feel compelled to shoot my Seecamp about 250 rounds per year. The other culprit are .50AE, but much less so, and those are really large cases with unradiused mouth dies (steel are the only option due to the taper) and since its an unsupported caliber there's some question as to whether the shellplate is perfect, etc. But its far less of a problem than .32 ACP and I've had that happen with most other calibers I load (.44 Spl/Mag, .41 Mag, 10mm, .45 ACP) but at a much lower rate, maybe 5 out of a 1000, enough to just consider it acceptable mechanical error. I'm not sure its ever been a problem with .223 rifle, but I use Dillon's carbide die and the tapered neck makes it kind of "self-centering".

Right, I would never do it for high volumes -- but my goal is for say, loading for a new bullet and determining the optimum charge for a half-dozen different charge weights and maybe 10-12 rounds per charge. Enough rounds to get a sense of which works better and which doesn't. Even if I narrow it down to a couple of charges it will be a big help, then I can do 50 of each using the usual methods. There's no way that BSing around with the Dillon measure can be faster for 10 rounds, especially when you consider with an automatic dispenser I can change charge weights with the press fully loaded with brass, primers, etc.

I love my 650, but even with a Uniquetek micrometer powder measure it's super tedious to do load development -- eg, loading 100 rounds with 10 different powder charges. I find myself generally just picking a value in the middle and using that (albeit with sound load data, not some-weird-numbers-I-read-on-the-web). I'd like to do this with a little more precision and am tempted by the "automagic" powder dispensers (RCBS Chargemaster and the Lyman one) where you can enter your desired charge weight and it trickles into an attached scale. This way I can use my 650 for sizing, priming, seating and crimping my test rounds but add in a half-manual step for precise powder charging. Once I find a load that shoots the best, I can use the Dillon powder measure for mass production. Anyone have any experience with them? The RCBS seems to be the best reviewed on Midway with the Lyman a close second. I'm only interested in a lazy-man's tool -- punch in charge amount and push go. I know there are manual powder tricklers, but that doesn't seem like what I want.

First off, I fully support your customization effort, even if its not a problem I'm having. I had a custom powder funnel made for loading an "unsupported" caliber (.50AE) on my 650. Secondly, I think your problem may not necessarily be due to the misalignment of the shellplate and die mouths. I've had this problem before and unrelated, I had my case insert slide & cam break. Dillon sent the entire assembly, including the slide spring and I noticed the original spring (in a year old press) was totally compressed relative to a new one. Once I replaced the assembly with the new spring, it happened a lot less. It still happens from time to time on some calibers, the least with Dillon size dies that have radiused mouths. Keep up the good work, it'll be interesting to see how well your custom part works.

Brian- I recently ran another 200 rounds of .50AE through my 650 with casfeeder. I have changed calibers 3 times in between my last .50AE session, so I had to re-assemble the .50AE setup as any other caliber conversion. It ran perfectly, with no casefeed problems. The cases used were once/twice fired Starline yellow brass, so they were probably as blown out as one could reasonably expect and they still presented no problem stacking on the rebated rims. I had two cases not get put all the way into station 1 and kind of ding against the size die, but I've had this happen with supported calibers and I think its more an issue of the RCBS dies I'm using not having very radiused mouths. I did have a machinist make a custom powder funnel -- same OAL as the .44 Mag powder funnel, but the other dimensions are consistent with the .50AE powder funnel from the 550 .50AE/650 .500S&W conversion kit. This also worked well and allowed me to screw the powder die to approximately the same position used with the .44 Mag; with the Dillon .50AE funnel, the powder die had to be screwed down so far it nearly touched the shellplate and barely flared the case mouth. I showed mine to my Dillon dealer, John Walton @ the Gunstop in Minnetonka, MN, and the next time I was in he told me Dillon changed this part for the .500 S&W conversion as the .50AE funnel was causing problems for .500 S&W reloaders. This report may be a tad premature (200 rounds vs. 1000), but it'll take me a while to shoot 1000 rounds of .50AE and I figured that it was pretty valid anyway since I used a batch of fired .50AE cases and the conversion parts were put back on a second time. I see no reason why this wouldn't be a normally supported conversion, especially if the powder die for the .500S&W has been redesigned.

When I bought mine, my dealer (John Walton, Gunstop in Minneapolis) said "I sell them all, but you have to decide if you want to buy the Dillon now or later, because everyone ultimately does." I'm on my second (first was a SDB, current is XL650) and never regret any of it, well, except for the 650 spent primer catcher. I even sold my SDB on Ebay for about 70% or so of the new value and all the die sets I had went real fast, too.

Speer reloading manual #13 on pp 54-55 specifically discounts primer reading as evidence of anything. They have a photo showing 3 cases, including one loaded 20% over pressure, that show identical primers. I'd just stick to published loads unless you have the lab equipment to measure pressure or really good disability insurance.

I finally got a chance to test mine, and at least with my used brass, a mixture of Starline and Remington, both nickel plated, I was able to easily size cases using the U die without any lube. I would normally use One-Shot. This die doesn't look like it has the wide radiused mouth the Redding Pro-Series die I had been using, and I did have one case just barely snag on sizing but I think that will probably prove manageable with a reasonable, consistent loading pace.

I bent the decap pin on my Dillon carbide .223 dies. I had it screwed too far down, thinking that the little hole that the primers dropped down into went forever. As it turns out, it doesn't.

I've left powder in the powder measure for a couple of months at a time, although usually adding and using up some of it on a weekly basis at least. I do keep my press covered with a dark cover (an old crib sheet!) which keeps out UV light. Other than UV exposure, I'm not really sure how a powder could be damaged by storage for six months in the plastic measure versus the plastic bottle; the seal isn't that much more airtight on the bottle. Outside of six months, humidity might be a problem though. But even then, people shoot vintage milsurp ammo thats 50-60 years old and not always stored well, so maybe you could get away with storing it indefinitely. I think the biggest risk is the risk of misremembering what powder you had and making a kaboom with ammo that's misloaded.

From the You-learn-something-every-day department: I started to post a completely different comment, but after reviewing the manual, I realized I've been misadjusting this part all along! I've been using screw #7 (from the primer system diagram) all along, and have always been kind of disappointed with the adjustment options (gee, I wonder why). When loading .223 I found that the "correct" adjustment of #7 was so loose that I had to put a couple of washers on it to maintain the tension I wanted without #7 backing out completely. Although I have found that a little contact between the locater tab and the case isn't bad a thing and I haven't had any priming problems in the calibers I've loaded (.32ACP/10mm/45 Colt/44 Mag/Spl/41 Mag/50AE/223), except for the odd flipped primer, but I'm pretty sure this happens when loading tubes not in the priming process. At least now I can re-adjust knowing WTF I'm doing is right! The next thing you know, I'll find out you're not supposed to look down that hole when you pull the trigger...

Thanks. I generally lube everything, including pistol cases used with carbide dies, simply because it makes the press operation much smoother. I'll give it a run solo and see how it works. I didn't really want to have to pre-size either solo on my pot metal single stage or in a station 1 and 2 combo on my 650 with powder on 3.

I'm going to use an EGW undersize die on my more used 10mm cases. I've seen some here using it after a standard sizing die; is that actually necessary, or can the undersize die be used in place of the standard size die? I would think that with a carbide die and just .001 undersize it wouldn't be out of line to use it alone.

Going way, way, way off topic, does Dillon ever have any plans to re-design the 550 and 650 presses? I can see where they could sell a manual indexing press without a case feeder and an autoindexing press with a casefeeder that was pretty much the same press, minus the indexing adjustment and the casefeeder. I would think for Dillon there would be colossal advantages in parts, manufacturing and support to have the presses be essentially the same. I'd also think that a clever design may allow the "higher-end" functions to be added individually to the lower-end press for those that wanted, say, a 550 with casefeed. A re-design would also allow them to "tune up" aspects of the design that seem clunky (650 priming) or limiting (casefeed on 550).

I don't yet know how many firings the cases are good for, but perhaps that it something to pay attention to as cases age. Thusfar, none of the case combos I have will stack on me (IMI yellow brass, Speer factory nickel, and Starline yellow, the latter both virgin and fired in my gun). I wonder if its an issue with case rims wearing just enough to shrink them down? I went with the N because it fit well and my dealer had used it a couple if years ago for another "wildcat" 650 adaption to 50AE. I'll keep that in mind if I talk to any other guys looking to do the same thing. Sure. I'm also having a custom powder funnel made that will match the .44's funnel in length. A machinist will make me one for $25, and I think this might make powder charging a tad smoother and case belling adjustment a little more flexible. It works now with the 550 50AE funnel, but there's not a ton of wiggle room. I've loaded 120 so far without any problems on the press, and the ammo seems pretty decent, too, leaving a 1-1.5" ragged hole at 15 yards. Now if I could just track down jacketed bullets for less than $0.35 each...

You're still using the N Shellplate? Since I'm not familiar with the 50AE, since it seems to work with the Casefeeder/tube - the casemouth is not wide enough so that the rim can get down inside it? If it works with the Casefeeder that seems like that would have to be the case. Thanks, be Orginally both Dillon (on the phone) and the dillon poster in this forum said that "stacking" -- the rebated rim of the .50AE case entering the case mouth of the case below -- was why they didn't support it and casefeeding would not work. Experience has shown that this doesn't happen. New cases will not fit inside the case mouth of even fired cases, either a range pickup I have, or factory cases fired in my gun. And they do not prevent automatic case feeding. It's actually much better than loading .32 Auto which gets a flipped case from the casefeed about 1 in 25. Here's my more-or-less complete parts list. Sorry I don't have the Dillon part numbers. 1) N Shellplate (mine came from the .44-40 conversion) 2) N Station 1 locater (also from .44-40 conversion) 3) #4 locater buttons 4) Yellow Casefeed adapter & arm bushing (from .44 Mag conversion) 5) XL Powder Die (used in .500 S&W Mag conversion) 6) .50AE powder funnel (also used in .500 Mag conversion, also and originally the part for a Dillon 550 .50AE conversion) 7) Magnum/XL Casefeed Body Assembly 8) XL Casefeed Body Bushing (requires #7; will not fit standard Casefeed Body Assembly) 9) The electric casefeed setup is the same as .44 Magnum (plate plus washer stack). 10) Stock casefeed tube I just loaded another 33 rounds and it worked flawlessly. The only thing I wish was different was a .44-mag length .50AE powder funnel, and a machinist in a local shooting group says he will look at what's involved in making one. (I assume that if I'm not reselling it, Dillon will see it as "end-user innovation" and not "patent infringement").

The addition of the XL casefeed body assembly and the XL casefeed body bushing has solved my last problem. My 650 is now fully functional for loading .50AE, including automatic casefeed from the electric casefeeder. I loaded about 20 rounds last night as a proof of concept. The only thing that still rankles is the very-nearly-too-short powder funnel. I'm kind of tempted to see if I can find a machinist to make a copy of it but with the same body length as the .44 Mag funnel. It doesn't look like a super complicated bit of machining, but I'm not a machinist. With something like that, I would think Dillon could supply a packaged conversion or at least support it with a parts list.

An update: I went by my dealer yesterday and picked up some parts for doing .50AE on the 650, including case feeding. I picked up the N shellholder and N station 1 locater, some #4 locater buttons, the XL powder die and 50 AE powder funnel. I skipped the magnum rifle conversion kit, which would have enabled the use of the XL casefeed body bushing. We figured it was superfluous. My dealer was out of the individual yellow arm bushings and adapters, so I'm using mine from my .44 mag kit temporarily. This morning, I installed the shellplate and the station 1 locater and threw about 20 new Starline cases into the casefeed bowl and turned it on. Success! Cases feed from the motorized casefeed and went around the press without any problems. I loaded a half-dozen spent primers into the primer magazine and had no problem priming cases (I was a little worried about the cases centering over the primer punch). However, when I went to setup the dies I found that it looks like the magnum rifle casefeed adapter and the XL body bushing is going to be mandatory. With dies on the press, I was crushing cases against the casefeed body since they weren't staying centered over the opening they dropped down from.. When you're shooting a caliber at 50 cents a shot, what's another $85 in reloading equipment? But the good news is that the casefeed mechanism doesn't screw up with the rebated rims, so its looking like I will more than likely be able to load 50AE with casefeeding. Another update: A just-barely-cleared obstacle is the powder die/powder funnel setup. The 50AE powder funnel is very short and requires the powder die screwed in within a hair of the shellplate in order to get case mouth belling. A taller (by .500") powder funnel would be nice for flexibility, but I suppose you could use the otherwise-unused case mouth belling die from the RCBS set in station 3.

I did try the rim of a new case against the mouth of a fired case and it didn't seem like an issue. I've only had the gun 3 days and haven't fired it to collect more fired cases. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to void your knowledge, I'm just hoping I can get it working reliably enough to avoid stripping off the casefeed, not to mention the wonderful speed benefits of casefeeding.

Interesting. My dealer and I looked at the C shellplate and it didn't fit the 50AE case well (I have this shellplate already, I should check again). What did fit was the N shellplate from a 44-40 conversion kit. He also claims to have at least one other customer who does this on a 650, including usable casefeeding, but said he couldn't remember the specific amalgam of parts. There's also this post from the Desert Eagle public forum, DE Forum Loading 50 AE on the 650 where the poster claims to be using a modified C shellplate but has casefeed working. I only have two .50AE cases at this point, but with my press currently setup for .44 Mag those two cases fed from the casefeed bowl and dropped down to my hand from the casefeed mechanism (less the bushing) without any problems. The rim and the mouth are very close in size, but even with some force I can't get an unfired new Starline rim into the mouth of a fired and unsized IMI case, so it doesn't seem like the rebated rim/case mouth stacking would be a big problem. I don't doubt that casefeed might not be as smooth as a "normal" caliber, but it sounds like it might be workable enough to be worth pursuing.

I finally scored a real deal on a Desert Eagle (yes, I know, its a stroke artist gun..) and need to be able to load .50AE. Both my local dealer (John Walton @ Gunstop in Minnesota) and others claim its possible to load 50AE and get casefeeding despite no official conversion kits. Does anyone have a definitive list of known parts to make this happen, or I will I be producing it?

No, thank you! That's awesome. I was using a bit of hyperbole when referring to Apple and 3Com's "thefts" as I remember some of the details from the generally excellent PBS documentary on the birth of the PC that ran a few years back ("Triumph of the Nerds"?). Now if we could just get someone from S&W to start "rambling" about that place's history...

I used to get about 1 or so out of every hundred primers upside down in my SDB with Federal and Winchester large primers. I just assumed it was a function of the jiggling the press went through sizing the larger nickel cases I used. Its not been an issue with the 650, except when I've had something come loose and the press jiggles again.