Light Major .45 Load

[Gooldylocks]

So I was thinking today (take this with a grain of salt, this is just a train of thought idea) about reloading different calibers for major. In my experience, .45 ACP has less felt recoil than a .40 cal shooting factory ammo. So, my thought was this: could you load .45 to barely above power factor and have a very soft, flat shooting gun? If my math is right then a 200gr bullet at 840 FPS should make 168 pf.

Does anyone load for major like this? I was mostly just wondering after seeing a Para USA 14.45 with Dawson base pads, making an 18 round 45. You would lose a few rounds to the 40's, but if you had a gun that you could shoot super flat and fast then maybe it would be ok?

Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!

[Hi-Power Jack]

The concensus seems to be a heavier bullet, with a fast powder (N320, eg) makes the gun shoot softer.

So rather than use a 200 grain bullet, you might want to start with a 230, or 255 if it would feed.

And, if you're shooting major matches, most people try to keep the PF a little higher - more like

170 - 175, just in case a different chrono, elevation or temperature drops their PF a bit - nobody

wants to shoot PF 164.99 at Minor instead of Major.

And, a .40 can shoot 200 gr bullets at 865 fps and feel pretty soft - but you'll have 1-2 more shots

in your mag.

There's a reason almost everyone shooting Limited Major is shooting a .40.

But, it's all personal - if you prefer the .45, you could do much worse - heck, some people shoot

Limited Minor (like me).

[Gooldylocks]

I currently am one of those limited minor shooters, with my 15 round 9mm magazines (gasp!) and I feel quite under gunned most stages. I really would prefer to get a 40 but I can't seem to find a gun I would like for the money I have to put into it since I am just starting out. A para 14.45 seems like it would be a good starter gun (if you had the basepads and a magwell) since the 16.40's don't seem to be overly plentiful.

Do you know about how many grains of a powder like that would be? If we were using 230 grainers for example. I did a search on here before I started this thread but wasn't having a ton of success.

Thanks!

[Steve RA]

Here is a chart that might help:

[Steve RA]

Those were all shot @ 25yards using a carpet covered 4X4 for a rest. Personally I use the 4.2 Gr load with a 200gr Bulletworks LSWC bullet, Federal small primer brass with Tula KKM-223 SRP loaded to 1.2495.

[ZackJones]

I usually load with heavy bullets. In .45 ACP I load with the 230g bullet but I give myself a bigger cushion on the power factor scale. I load to a 170 - 175 power factor. Granted at a big match if I failed to shoot major power factor I'd be scored minor which is certainly better than failing to make minor! As far as .45 vs .40 for limited - if you already have the gun the run with it. Yeah you'll give up a few rounds to the .40 guys but that just means your stage plan needs to be a little different than theirs. Good luck!

[Hi-Power Jack]

I use the 4.2 Gr load with a 200gr Bulletworks LSWC bullet loaded to 1.2495.

Great, Steve, but there ain't no Clays

[Steve RA]

Some have - some haven't !!!

[bigdawgbeav]

I'm loading 230gr. Bayou Bullets with 3.7gr. of Clays and getting around 170PF. I know Clays is not available but there are other alternatives out there like E3 and Ramshot Competition.

With a .45 you will have less rounds, but in the end you may end up with the same number of reloads as a .40 shooter all depending on your stage plan.

[Gooldylocks]

Thanks for all the info guys! This is exactly what I was hoping to learn. I am going to continue to look around and see what guns I can test out and shoot before I commit to any gun purchase. I handled my friend's para 14.45 and thought it felt nice in the hand but I haven't shot it yet. Hopefully I get to try out a glock 34/5 soon and see how that feels.

I had just been thinking that if your gun had very low recoil and muzzle flip maybe it would be worth the trade off for a few less rounds with more snap to them.

And, a .40 can shoot 200 gr bullets at 865 fps and feel pretty soft - but you'll have 1-2 more shots

in your mag.

There's a reason almost everyone shooting Limited Major is shooting a .40.

So what does a load like that feel like? Soft push of a .45 or light like a 9mm? I have only ever shot factory .40's and have always thought they were not nice on the hand.

[Hi-Power Jack]

factory .40's come in at PF 150 - 250 ; The PF 250's are a bit much - the lighter

loads are pretty easy. I've fired a .40 at major PF (170) and it's a lot like a

9mm to me.

[jester121]

So what does a load like that feel like? Soft push of a .45 or light like a 9mm? I have only ever shot factory .40's and have always thought they were not nice on the hand.

Every shot one of those marshmallow gun kids toys? That's about what it feels like.

[njl]

A 230gr FMJ/JHP doing 730fps is noticeably softer than factory 230gr ammo which is generally going to be around 100fps faster. Depending on the gun used, somewhere around 4.5gr WST will do. I've used these and done well at GSSF matches (no power factor to worry about) when my 185gr minor PF ammo wouldn't run. Apparently, you can shoot weak ammo or you can let your Glocks get filthy from too infrequent cleaning, but doing both at the same time is not a good idea

185gr at 800fps is pretty soft too...but not even close to major PF.

[BBQDawg]

I am very happy with a 200gr coated SWC from SNS and 5.5gr N320 at 1.250 OAL. I get 171-172 Power Factor using a Wilson Combat CQB and a 12.5lb ISMI recoil spring. I was using the 230gr RN, and yes, the recoil on the 230gr seemed softer, but I get quicker shots off with the 200gr. It also is grouping well with my follow up shots. I like the combo.

[Dkrad1935]

I think anything at same power factor will have similar recoil. People describe the feel differently but I'm not sure there is much if a difference. At least not enough to see it consistently on the clock.

But that's just my science thinkig. I haven't shot all these different combinations so who knows.

[Liferlance]

I'm a little lost on power factors and all the comp talk, but I just did an experiment for my kid cousin where I started at the min load for my 220gr bullets and worked south until a barely cycled and the lightest loads were like a paintball gun vs any fire arm I have ever shot. For my Stock XD that worked out to be 3.3gr of WSF in large primer Winchester brass using federal large pistol mag primers.

That load won't cycle my buddies glock or my wife's hk though.

[kneelingatlas]

I think anything at same power factor will have similar recoil. People describe the feel differently but I'm not sure there is much if a difference. At least not enough to see it consistently on the clock.

But that's just my science thinkig. I haven't shot all these different combinations so who knows.

The PF formula is not very scientific, I think 'feel' correlates more with kinetic energy and slide velocity. I've shoot the same platform (CZ/Tanfoglio) in many calibers (9, 40, and 45) at the same PF and I can tell you the caliber makes a BIG difference because the lighter bullets going faster have much more kinetic energy.

For example, three loads at 165 PF:

9mm 115gr @ 1435fps - 526 ft lbs of energy

.40 180gr @ 917fps - 336 ft lbs of energy

.45 225gr @ 734fps - 269 ft lbs of energy

[GBertolet]

As mentioned in the previous post, there is no corelation between power factor and bullet energy among different bullet weights. PF is more of a measure of bullet momentum, rather than energy. In early IPSC, a ballistic pendelum was used instead of a chronograph at major matches. In the 45 over the years, I tried bullet weights from 152 gr up to 250 gr. Loaded to the same PF, the lighter bullet loadings are much more powerful, and do recoil more. As you go up the ladder in bullet weight, the recoil correspondingly lessens, because the bullet energy is reduced. I found the 152 gr loadings are very harsh, and the 250 gr loadings operate the slide too lazily for my taste. I found, as many others have, the 200 and 230 gr loadings tend to be the most civil, and therefore popular.