bassochist Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 17.3 Aftermarket grip panels which match the profile and contours of the OFM standard or optional grip panels for the approved handgun and/or the application of tape on grips (see Appendix E3) are permitted. However, rubber sleeves are prohibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) What sperman said in post 25. how would they ever know?? and why would they ask if they made weight? Edited January 13, 2014 by GmanCdp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If we say that the profile cannot change, then how do we go about policing it? The CZ Custom web site lists at least 4 different profile grips (not different textures, different profiles.) There are other's out there making grips for the CZ. As an RO, how do I know which profiles are approved? Do they have to be on a gun on the list to be legal? How do I know which grips come on which guns? Not easy to police = legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) and why would they ask if they made weight?Production guns cannot weigh more than 2 Oz (Edited: originally typed in 1 Oz) over the manufacturer's listed weight. If you put bigger grips on the gun, it may put it over the allowable weight. Edited January 13, 2014 by racerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Okay, how do Production legal polymer guns with factory sets of grip pieces fall into this rule? Wasn't that a selling point of some of them, that you could change out backstraps, etc to modify the gun to you? Or is it one of those "its factory so its allowed now be quiet" questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 you can route out the wood from the grips.. so are the VZ thin grips I installed throws me out?? just asking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Okay, how do Production legal polymer guns with factory sets of grip pieces fall into this rule? Wasn't that a selling point of some of them, that you could change out backstraps, etc to modify the gun to you? Or is it one of those "its factory so its allowed now be quiet" questions?Don't know if they use the heaviest stock grip weight or not. That would be a question to the NROI as to how they determine the weight of a particular gun. I know there is a list of guns and it's allowable weight...I don't know where they get the weights from though. I know those backstraps are not enough to put it over the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If we say that the profile cannot change, then how do we go about policing it? The CZ Custom web site lists at least 4 different profile grips (not different textures, different profiles.) There are other's out there making grips for the CZ. As an RO, how do I know which profiles are approved? Do they have to be on a gun on the list to be legal? How do I know which grips come on which guns? Not easy to police = legal? I guess it depends on the context. Here on the internet, I would say "no." At a match, the difference between a rule that is unenforced (for whatever reason) and a rule that doesn't exist is negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Okay, how do Production legal polymer guns with factory sets of grip pieces fall into this rule? Wasn't that a selling point of some of them, that you could change out backstraps, etc to modify the gun to you? Or is it one of those "its factory so its allowed now be quiet" questions?Don't know if they use the heaviest stock grip weight or not. That would be a question to the NROI as to how they determine the weight of a particular gun. I know there is a list of guns and it's allowable weight...I don't know where they get the weights from though. I know those backstraps are not enough to put it over the weight. I'm pretty sure the manufacturer supplies USPSA with the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I am well aware what the rule on grips states.....but if there is 10 or more different styles and thickness of grips out there that people are using So why couldn't you have someone make you custom grips as long as the gun fits in the box Weight....2oz over listed weight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) In speaking with someone who knows more about the rules than I (being they are on the Rules Committee) he said it wasn't crystal clear either. The basic understanding that I came away with was; if it is a manufactured grip panel (which was what the OP was asking to do), it is ok if it meets the other criteria and wasn't stupid. If it was a manufactured panel that was ground on or material added to, not ok. He also said it would likely need a clarification if people start doing crazy things. Edited January 14, 2014 by Loves2Shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So its OK for me to take a piece of aluminum or micarta, and make a grip panel in any shape I want, but it's not OK for me to take a factory grip panel and modify it? Channeling a mid-70s cinematic masterpiece: "It's Production, Scott!" I will need some help with that reference. I botched the quote.... If I'd said "Forget it Scott, it's production....." would that have made it easier? If it didn't, it's the concluding line of the Robert Town scripted movie Chinatown..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 That didn't help either. I've never seen Chinatown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 In speaking with someone who knows more about the rules than I (being they are on the Rules Committee) he said it wasn't crystal clear either. The basic understanding that I came away with was; if it is a manufactured grip panel (which was what the OP was asking to do), it is ok if it meets the other criteria and wasn't stupid. If it was a manufactured panel that was ground on or material added to, not ok. He also said it would likely need a clarification if people start doing crazy things. Hence my comment of "Sort of." Right now it's really up to the RM to decide if the topic comes up..... Fortunately I haven't had to make that call..... As to Flex's comment "Hard to enforce = legal? No, of course not. I'd argue that Hard to enforce = higher probability of erroneous calls being made. And those calls could go either way -- favor the shooter, or favor his competitors...... Thinking about how difficult a particular requirement is to enforce should be a critical component of the rules making process..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 That didn't help either. I've never seen Chinatown. Put it on your list of good movies to see at some point...... .....if you like movies..... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So that I am clear with what some are saying...........You can change grip panels but the panels you use to replace the stock ones must be the same as the stock ones? Are we really saying that is what the rule says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So that I am clear with what some are saying...........You can change grip panels but the panels you use to replace the stock ones must be the same as the stock ones? Are we really saying that is what the rule says? Same profile anyway..... and the gun still needs to fit in the box, and make weight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 In speaking with someone who knows more about the rules than I (being they are on the Rules Committee) he said it wasn't crystal clear either. The basic understanding that I came away with was; if it is a manufactured grip panel (which was what the OP was asking to do), it is ok if it meets the other criteria and wasn't stupid. If it was a manufactured panel that was ground on or material added to, not ok. He also said it would likely need a clarification if people start doing crazy things. Hence my comment of "Sort of." Right now it's really up to the RM to decide if the topic comes up..... Fortunately I haven't had to make that call..... As to Flex's comment "Hard to enforce = legal? No, of course not. I'd argue that Hard to enforce = higher probability of erroneous calls being made. And those calls could go either way -- favor the shooter, or favor his competitors...... Thinking about how difficult a particular requirement is to enforce should be a critical component of the rules making process..... Nik,your comment about rules enforcement is the best I have ever heard!!! I agree 100 percent. Rule book would be much thinner. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thinking about how difficult a particular requirement is to enforce should be a critical component of the rules making process.....Great statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 How is this interpreted when the factory makes two different grip profiles for the same gun? Sig has models on the Production list that can be purchased with either standard-profile or E2-profile grips. The primary difference is a deeper dish under the beavertail to allow a better fit for people with smaller hands. Could someone replace their factory standard grips with factory E2 grips? Would this be considered similar to someone replacing the backstrap on their M&P/XD/Glock? I'd post comparison pics, but everytime I try to post a picture, it locks up the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acpie360 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Is Mathew Mink's CZ-75 SP-01 equipped with a pair of custom grip panels? Edited February 5, 2014 by acpie360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 How is this interpreted when the factory makes two different grip profiles for the same gun? Sig has models on the Production list that can be purchased with either standard-profile or E2-profile grips. The primary difference is a deeper dish under the beavertail to allow a better fit for people with smaller hands. Could someone replace their factory standard grips with factory E2 grips? Would this be considered similar to someone replacing the backstrap on their M&P/XD/Glock? I'd post comparison pics, but everytime I try to post a picture, it locks up the window. There isn't anything in the rules that says the factory has to make the grip panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 How is this interpreted when the factory makes two different grip profiles for the same gun? Sig has models on the Production list that can be purchased with either standard-profile or E2-profile grips. The primary difference is a deeper dish under the beavertail to allow a better fit for people with smaller hands. Could someone replace their factory standard grips with factory E2 grips? Would this be considered similar to someone replacing the backstrap on their M&P/XD/Glock? I'd post comparison pics, but everytime I try to post a picture, it locks up the window. There isn't anything in the rules that says the factory has to make the grip panel. Sorry, I overemphasized the "factory" part. I more concerned with the fact that the E2 grips change the profile, but they change it to a profile that is available on most models from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I would contact NROI, maybe that will prompt them to offer a clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The way I read the comments above, if it looks like a quality produced part, it's legal. If it looks like you did it in your garage with a dremel, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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