DA/SA Platform realistic ?

[PatriotMac]

Been shooting for many years and carry daily on the job but just recently decided to test the waters in IDPA. I will be starting out with my Beretta 92FS since that is what I carry daily, what I have at home and what I am used to. My son will be using a Gen 4 GLOCK 17 that has had the factory mag release switched to the other side seeing as he is left handed. I have two questions that pertain to the guns we will be using.

1. Will he still be able to compete in the stock class with the factory mag release switched for a left hander?
2. Is it realistic that I will be able to compete past the local level using a DA/SA platform?

I have considered buying a PX4 Storm to use for IDPA and really want to stick to the DA/SA platform since that’s what I’m forced to carry on the job daily and would prefer to keep sharp with that type of weapon.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

MAC

[GmanCdp]

1: yes

2: yes

some kid has shot Beretta 92 once or twice

Gun is a Beretta 92G Elite 2 Bullets are 147 Grain Moly Coated from Black Bullets International

and this guy named Ernest was pretty good with a Beretta...

http://pistol-training.com/archives/3998

Edited November 20, 2013 by GmanCdp

[PatriotMac]

Thanks GmanCdp,

Answered all my questions and even gave me vidio proof! This Forum is going to help me A LOT!

[Alaskapopo]

DA SA is a handicap no way around it but the game is about 90% shooter and 10% equipment.

Pat

[sperman]

It is only a handicap if you think it is.

[kneelingatlas]

Is it realistic that I will be able to compete past the local level using a DA/SA platform?

HMM... maybe you should ask Eric Grauffel if he can shoot a DA/SA pistol without embarrassing himself

Edited November 21, 2013 by kneelingatlas

[kneelingatlas]

In case you've never heard of Eric: yes, a good share of world class Production shooters choose DA/SA pistols (primarily the CZ 75 pattern pistols) so no, its definitely competitive. I shoot with two very good Production shooters who shoot the Beretta 92 as well.

[Jim Watson]

IPSC Production has a minimum FIRST SHOT trigger pull. The hair trigger Glocks commonly seen in IDPA and USPSA are not allowed. They shoot DA/SA so they only have to pull over five pounds once per stage.

Anybody shooting IDPA or USPSA with a DA/SA is just accepting the challenge, and it can be done. I can shoot a CZ75 well enough, but not a P226.

[bikerburgess]

Anybody shooting IDPA or USPSA with a DA/SA is just accepting the challenge.

Strange that the USPSA Production champion the last several years has has been shooting a DA/SA gun. this year I know 1st and 2nd were DA/SA I think last year the top three were shooting them. I don't think the top guys in the US are using them for the added challenge. I believe they are using them because they think the one DA shot is a very small price to pay for the following 2-3lb crisp short trigger pulls.

[PatriotMac]

Great input All....I think I'm convinced that I will stay with the DA/SA Platform. Now I will keep doing my research on which gun I may want to eventually go with. But for now it will be my trusty old Beretta 92FS which I'm sure will be the least of my worries as far as things holding me back since I'm just getting started.

My Duty Weapon has Hogue grips on it but my personal does not. Would this chhange be allowed in SSP class?

Also.... Does anyone have any experience with the Baby Eagle's? I know it's kind of a CZ knock off but dont know much more about them and if they would be an option in the future.

[TerryT]

I know a number of Master class IDPA shooters that are switching from striker fired guns to DA/SA. They are not doing it for the challenge. They are doing it because they can't get to the accuracy levels they want at speed with the striker fired guns. No slam on Glocks or M&P's because plenty do well with them. Just saying that using a DA/SA with a decent trigger will not be a disadvantage.

[kneelingatlas]

My Duty Weapon has Hogue grips on it but my personal does not. Would this chhange be allowed in SSP class?

I don't know about IDPA, but Hogue finger groove grips are not allowed in USPSA Production

Also.... Does anyone have any experience with the Baby Eagle's? I know it's kind of a CZ knock off but dont know much more about them and if they would be an option in the future.

The Jericho 491 design has been re-branded a few times (Baby Eagle, Uzi Eagle, Desert Eagle Pistol), but it is an excellent pistol; more closely related to the EAA/Tanfoglio small frame pistols than the CZs (many parts interchange). I guess you could say it's a clone of a clone (which would make the Canik Shark a clone to the third power ).

Back to your question, the Jericho is very similar to the much sought after Tanfoglio Stock II both in form and function so I highly recommend it to anyone looking a bargain on an all steel CZ75 pattern pistol. The Jericho grip is unique among the clones and caters to those shooters with smaller hands and who find the CZs/Tanfos too bulky.

[kneelingatlas]

Anybody shooting IDPA or USPSA with a DA/SA is just accepting the challenge

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

[motosapiens]

Is it realistic that I will be able to compete past the local level using a DA/SA platform?

The answer to this question can be divined by checking out the top 10 places in USPSA nationals in production class (rough equivalent to ssp) the last few years. The majority of the very top shooters, including ALL the winners are using DA/SA guns from cz, beretta and tanfoglio.

Certainly, a striker-fired gun is a handicap, but the fact that people have been able to still get close to the real guns indicates it's not a very big handicap.

[ericjhuber]

1. Is it realistic that I will be able to compete past the local level using a DA/SA platform?

It's more than realistic. I can't speak about IDPA since that's not a game that I play, but I shoot USPSA Production with a Glock 34 Gen 4. I also have a Beretta 92 FS from my police academy days that I've been experimenting with also. You'll find that quite a few of the USPSA Jedi Masters opt for DA/SA pistols for Production. Ben Stoeger is the classic example. He shot a Beretta for a very long time before switching over to another DA/SA (a Tanfoglio). Ben is one of the world's best Production shooters. Check this out.

The nice folks at CZ make several DA/SA pistols that are very popular in USPSA Production and other disciplines. Here is Sara Dunivan taking care of business with one.

It won't come as a surprise that both Sara and Ben will be representing the United States next year in the 2014 IPSC World Shoot.

I don't yet have a firm opinion on striker fired vs. DA/SA for action shooting. I suspect it's largely the shooter and their preferences rather than one being superior to the other. You'll see people doing amazing things with both in action shooting!

Edited November 21, 2013 by ericjhuber

[PatriotMac]

1. Is it realistic that I will be able to compete past the local level using a DA/SA platform?

It's more than realistic. I can't speak about IDPA since that's not a game that I play, but I shoot USPSA Production with a Glock 34 Gen 4. I also have a Beretta 92 FS from my police academy days that I've been experimenting with also. You'll find that quite a few of the USPSA Jedi Masters opt for DA/SA pistols for Production. Ben Stoeger is the classic example. He shot a Beretta for a very long time before switching over to another DA/SA (a Tangfolio). Ben is one of the world's best Production shooters. Check this out.

The nice folks at CZ make several DA/SA pistols that are very popular in USPSA Production and other disciplines. Here is Sara Dunivan taking care of business with one.

It won't come as a surprise that both Sara and Ben will be representing the United States next year in the 2014 IPSC World Shoot.

I don't yet have a firm opinion on striker fired vs. DA/SA for action shooting. I suspect it's largely the shooter and their preferences rather than one being superior to the other. You'll see people doing amazing things with both in action shooting!

Wow!! Thanks for the Vidio's. They made me realise I have a long way to go before I worry about what platform to shoot. Also made me realise I better start working on my flexibility if I'm ever going to try and shoot out a low window like Sara Dunivin did in her vidio!LOL Thanks again ...I feel good about getting started with my Beretta now.

[Alaskapopo]

It is only a handicap if you think it is.

No its fact if not we would have open, limited and other classes jumping to the great DA SA trigger system. A solution in search of a problem and a handicap.

I have shot them for my share of years as well. You either have to slow down on your 1st shot while you deal with the long da or accept a greater margin of error on your shot placement for that first shot. Some folks shoot very well in spite of having DA SA guns not because of them.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Alaskapopo

[kneelingatlas]

There's no question an icicle break SAO is better than a DA/SA, that's not the comparison being made here. The comparison is between striker fired and selective action Production guns.

[Alaskapopo]

There's no question an icicle break SAO is better than a DA/SA, that's not the comparison being made here. The comparison is between striker fired and selective action Production guns.

Glocks are competitive in limited with tuned triggers where DA SA guns really aren't. Having a consistent trigger is an advantage in my experience.

Pat

[GmanCdp]

Quote :Been shooting for many years and carry daily on the job but just recently decided to test the waters in IDPA

Don't be confused here when some post about Production guns, ipsic,uspsa,they do not have the same rules,divisions,or classification system as IDPA..

[kneelingatlas]

Glocks are competitive in limited with tuned triggers where DA SA guns really aren't. Having a consistent trigger is an advantage in my experience.

Pat

There's no denying Glocks are competitive, I just can't get into them. I shoot CZ75 pattern pistols with light, crisp SA triggers; I only own DA pistols for Production and HD.

[Alaskapopo]

Glocks are competitive in limited with tuned triggers where DA SA guns really aren't. Having a consistent trigger is an advantage in my experience.

Pat

There's no denying Glocks are competitive, I just can't get into them. I shoot CZ75 pattern pistols with light, crisp SA triggers; I only own DA pistols for Production and HD.

Different strokes for different folks. Never did care for DA SA now I admit a custom tuned CZ75 has a far better trigger than the run of the mill Sig, Beretta or HK. Sorry if I offended.

[kneelingatlas]

If definetly not that sensitive

There aren't enough CZs and clones to go around as it is!

[motosapiens]

. Some folks shoot very well in spite of having DA SA guns not because of them.

So it's just coincidence that da/sa guns dominate (not just a little dominate either, but totally dominate) the leader board in production class at nationals, year after year? That seems unlikely.

For sure, a DA/SA trigger is a very slight disadvantage compared to a really nice 1911/2011 trigger, but I would argue that any striker-fired trigger is also a slight disadvantage compared to a really nice 1911/2011 trigger. Fortunately, if you are competing against 1911/2011 guns (in IDPA-ESP, L10, limited or even open), you don't have to fire the the first shot DA, whereas the folks that shoot crappy plastic guns still have to take every shot with a crappy plastic gun.

[prk]

Well said moto -- I first started with DA/SA then went to striker-fired to try and get the same trigger every time - but I just couldn't take having to take every shot with a crappy plastic gun. I guess I'm spoiled because it's SAO for me now except for the Kahr trigger on my P9 Covert carry weapon. It seems like Production is the new Open Class and everybody is hopping on the wagon -- I guess other than the first DA shot, a lot of these SA are pretty damn close to a nice 1911 trigger.