learning to double tap

[MetropolisLake]

So, I can't double tap worth a crap. I'm actually pretty accurate even at long distances at least when I'm shooting by myself and there's no pressure, but I still can't double tap. At all. My sight picture is all jacked up after the initial shot and if I pull the trigger again it's just spraying bullets in that general direction. Thinking I could hit a 10" steel with that second shot? Yeah right. This is all on 1911's and .40 caliber pistols so that's part of it, but still, I need to be able to do that. Is the trick to just kill the grip, or what?

Edited October 16, 2013 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[mlmiller1]

Double tap bad. Controlled doubles good. Sight picture for each shot. Always.

[kneelingatlas]

Don't think of it as a "double tap"; you need to place two A zone hits on each paper target. As your ability and mastery of your pistol increase the time between two A's will decrease. The hits are what matters; mitigating the "pressure" is what will make you faster.

I've talked to a lot of shooters who wished they had learned how to get good hits before they got fast; it takes much longer to pull the bullets back on target than to get faster.

[BSeevers]

Double taps are ok on close open targets. When our matches are only close open targets then I will say learn to do double taps fast.

Until then, learn to shoot fast and accurate.

[co-exprs]

You'll get the same advice from me. Those "double taps" you see Nils burnin out are really controlled pairs on any target beyond 7ish yards. That being said... the way you get to the point at which you can throw controlled pairs that fast is through practicing both proper recoil management as well as training your eyes to see the sights very quickly. As you learn to better manage recoil, your sights will move less and be easier to see. As you learn to see the sights faster, you will see more of what is going on. Corner one of the well seasoned competitors at your club and ask for some pointers. The older the better. Old guys not only have more experience, but they also have to overcome the challenge of weakening arm strength and degrading eye sight. Those old guys really know how to use every trick to their advantage. We have this old guy in our club. His name is Bob, so I'll just call him... Bob. The guy is older than dirt and is one of the top pistol shooters in Colorado. No one notices him, because he is so smooth and seamless that he is not exciting to watch. There he is though, every match, at the top of the leader board. He's just one of those nice old guys, who you never see coming. Bob will smile at you and ask you about the kids... then hand you your ass with a extra dose of nice guy on the side. Someone like Bob is who you should look for.

[kneelingatlas]

^^^ +1 ^^^

I think "old guys" also have the humility to keep their ego out of it.

[kirbinster]

I feel your pain, I have the same. I am getting faster, but still not fast enough. The problem I have with my Glock is the feel of the trigger to reset. I take too long to only go to reset to refire rather than let me finger come all the way off and repress the trigger.

[SilverBolt]

Two separate shots each with a sight picture. Work on separating the shots and getting a good sight picture on each. The speed will come.

[MetropolisLake]

1:11 here. Would love to be able to do that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HgtkMLNZ5B4#t=71

[prk]

Like what everyone else says , it comes with time and practice. Most double taps more than 3-5 yds out are two controlled pairs - 2nd shot right when your front sight is back on target. Usually the more recoil, the longer the splits for your 2nd shot. With everything being equal, my splits are longest for 45acp , then 40s&w , then 9mm and then ( 0.13 sec ) for 22lr. Grip plays a factor also , 60-70% of your grip should be your weak hand with as much of your weak hand on the grips as possible.

[BSeevers]

No double tapping here I think I dropped 7

http://youtu.be/5wLh5GmquNw

[motosapiens]

When I first started shooting a year or so ago, it seemed unbelievable to me that people were actually seeing the sights for both shots. Now I get it. One thing that helped me get better was starting off live fire sessions with 10 rounds at 1 every 2 seconds, then 10 rounds at 1 every second, then 10 rounds at 1 every .5 seconds. The first few months, that last string was a bit erratic. It's not always a bad thing to go too fast for a string or two as long as you are still looking at the sights, and seeing where they are aligned. Before too long, the slower strings were helping me adjust my grip and technique so the sights dropped back pretty close to where they were needed for the next shot.

Now, as a B-class shooter, the sights never actually leave the A-zone at 7 yards (shooting minor). When shooting major, they barely jump out of the A-zone but drop right back in. Practice seeing your sights and watching how they travel up and down, and before long your shots will be faster.

[MetropolisLake]

Grip plays a factor also , 60-70% of your grip should be your weak hand with as much of your weak hand on the grips as possible.

If this is the concensus, then my grip obviously sucks. I definitely don't do this.

Upon second thought though... I don't understand this. How is your weak hand supposed to be on the grip at all? The strong hand is on the weak, and the weak wraps over the strong hand. My weak hand doesn't even touch the grip. Thought that was perfectly normal.

Edited October 17, 2013 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Flexmoney]

My weak hand doesn't even touch the grip.

there ya go.

Thought that was perfectly normal.

Maybe in magazines and movies.

[sauza45]

Take a look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ

[Powder Finger]

nothing will guide your bullets to the spot on the target you want to hit with jacked up sights after the first shot.

shoot with no target and watch the sights.....where do they go ?.....why ?....where do they end up ?

when you can see where they go then start changing grip pressure, stance, etc..... after that you are teaching yourself.

pay attention because you can't get too mad at the teacher.

[MetropolisLake]

Take a look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ

Hell, we're talking about two different things. Bad visual on my part. He's not doing anything major that I don't do already. I still don't understand how 70% of your power can come from the weak hand, but in terms of placement, that's essentially what I'm doing. I will study this in detail, probably some intricacies that would be helpful. Thanks.

Edited October 17, 2013 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[mlmiller1]

If you learn to use the weak hand for the grip & the strong hand to pull the trigger, you will be better off. Isolate the strong hand muscles so all they have to do is pull the trigger & you have so much more control than you have presently. Grip your pistol, have someone (preferably your wife/girlfriend) press on your forearm of your strong hand. Keep relaxing that until it is soft, all while using your weak hand to hold your strong hand & gun. Then feel your trigger press. You can feel it, you can control it. If your forearm is tight, it is much harder to control/feel the trigger press. Try it. Tell me what you think.

[Mbauer67]

Buy Brian's book, it will give you the answers to questions you don't even know yet.

[MetropolisLake]

Michael Seeklander just posted this, haven't watched it yet.

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/shooting-with-a-handgun-pressure-and-grip/26048/

[MetropolisLake]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=161443#entry1801166

[TJHuxley]

If you learn to use the weak hand for the grip & the strong hand to pull the trigger, you will be better off. Isolate the strong hand muscles so all they have to do is pull the trigger & you have so much more control than you have presently. Grip your pistol, have someone (preferably your wife/girlfriend) press on your forearm of your strong hand. Keep relaxing that until it is soft, all while using your weak hand to hold your strong hand & gun. Then feel your trigger press. You can feel it, you can control it. If your forearm is tight, it is much harder to control/feel the trigger press. Try it. Tell me what you think.

Hey, thanks, this reveals a bit more to me than the 60% / 40% remark, I always hear. I'll try this at my next training visit to range.

[prk]

the internet is full of goodies !

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/tactics_training_combatg_100306/

[GOF]

A Double Tap is nothing more than two rounds triggered rapidly off of the initial sight picture. The theory being that recoil will not shift the gun far enough to throw the second shot far from the first. Triggering two shots from the first sight picture is something you have to force yourself to do because it is not a natural act for a shooter used to using the sights for each round.

The Double Tap has uses at close range. Through practice you can determine what your maximum range should be before you shift to Controlled Pairs (aligning the sights for each shot). The advice above on using the support hand for the grip and the strong hand to pull the trigger is excellent.

You might start your practice at 4 or 5 yards and work on getting those two rounds off quickly.... with the emphasis on drilling that first round exactly where you want it to go with a solid sight picture.... then move back until you determine the distance where the spread becomes too great to be effective.

[MetropolisLake]

What's interesting is that my sight picture for the second shot is MUCH more controllable with my FNX-40 than it is with my Glock 35. I could almost do it with my FNX. However the trigger reset is long enough that I don't let go enough and I'll try to squeeze again and it doesn't go off. Yeah I know, newbie mistake. I think with some training I could shoot twice quickly with this gun.