Calling Doubles

[russ2400]

I shot my first USPSA match this month and had a blast. I shot production with my Glock 34 and thought I did decent for my first time out(7 out of 13).

I've shot IDPA for the past 5 months and have seen only two times that doubles have been called. What I found out in USPSA doubles are called fairly often. Is this a common thing? Maybe just in local matches? In my squad I heard about 4-5 called for the match, this seems like a crazy amount to me. I know they can happen but the two I saw up close just looked like single shots to me but what do I know..

[Classic_jon]

Were those doubles called when someone was shooting an open gun with a comp and red dot?

There is also the law of averages and the skill levels of the shooters involved as well. Last thursday when scoring at an IDPA match I called three doubles. Two were obvious and one I had to look at for a second.

This also leads into the fact that the scorekeeper *should* be watching the targets so they can see if this happens and not standing there talking to the peanut gallery.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Classic_jon

[russ2400]

Were those doubles called when someone was shooting an open gun with a comp and red dot?

...

Actually yes, I think all but one called double were from open guns. Although two of them were really fast, I assumed they were going so fast they just completely missed the second shot, are doubles among open guns more realistic?

[motosapiens]

With some experience, even some fairly close calls start to become more obvious.

In my experience very few USPSA RO's are giving out freebies when it comes to doubles. Even very good shooters sometimes are transitioning before they finish pulling the trigger.

I don't even refer to something as a double if I can clearly discern it as 2 separate holes.

[Butterpuc]

As an SO I have called doubles many many times. 99% of the time they were obvious.... A very small 2nd grease ring was visible. I can only remember calling one double that clearly looked like a single hole... And I was questioned by the MD and other SO's during scoring. But what I know I saw was the shooter clearly engage the target at about 5 yards make a -0 hit and fire the second shot which I saw hit the target in the -0 down area in same location. I did see the target move with each shot, this individual was shooting a revolver so his split times were not that fast and was easy to see.

[juan]

I think doubles are very rare. a bullseye shooter does not get as many doubles as some shooters in uspsa

[motosapiens]

I think doubles are very rare. a bullseye shooter does not get as many doubles as some shooters in uspsa

bullsey shooters don't have a lot of 5 yard shots tho.

[Corey]

I've seen some "doubles" both ROing and as a shooter. They happen from time to time. Usually its pretty obvious when you get close to the target, other times the overlays need to come out.

And btw, a "perfect double" where the bullets go through the exact same hole 100% clean....is scored as Alpha/Mike

[Cy Soto]

As juan already pointed out, true doubles are very, VERY rare but, if the shooter who is claiming that he/she had a double on a target can make the RO second-guess their call, they will get away with placing higher in the match results.

This past weekend for example I had a shooter who claimed not one, but two doubles in a course of fire. It was obvious to both me (the score-keeper) as well as to the main RO that his bullets were tumbling. The shooter disagreed with the two mikes and insisted that the RM (who was also in our squad) made the final decision. The RM decided that, since both of these holes were oblong, the shooter got the benefit of the doubt and he would call them a double.

I haven't seen the final results yet but I have no doubt that this shooter's whining got him a better finish than he deserved.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Cy Soto

[CHA-LEE]

Oh yeah.... the tumbling bullet = big enough hole to be two hits argument. When shooters with tumbling bullets try to pull that crap, I point to the other targets with two obvious hits where most of the single hits are key holed exactly the same way as the target in question. Then I ask them to inspect the target in question and SHOW ME two definitive grease ring radius's of his two separate hits. Since 99.9999999% of the time a second radius does not exist, the only call you can make is to call it a miss.

If these congenital "Double" calling shooters got DQed for unsportsmanlike conduct when they pull this crap it would happen a lot less.

[Mark R]

I get them all the time...it's like...

"Oh yea, it's a double"....<pause>..."Alpha - - Mike"

[mhop]

If these congenital "Double" calling shooters got DQed for unsportsmanlike conduct when they pull this crap it would happen a lot less.

What about arguring to not get an FTE?

[CHA-LEE]

If these congenital "Double" calling shooters got DQed for unsportsmanlike conduct when they pull this crap it would happen a lot less.

What about arguring to not get an FTE?

I would think that scenario would fall into the same bucket.

[38SuperDub]

What about a perfect double on a drop turner?

[38SuperDub]

I've seen teh above done a lot - its aggravating. You missed - man up and accept it!

[jdphotoguy]

And btw, a "perfect double" where the bullets go through the exact same hole 100% clean....is scored as Alpha/Mike

Really the term double is incorrect, because as Corey pointed out, two shoots through the same hole can only count as one shot, because there is not two distinctive grease rings, partial or otherwise.

The competitors calling doubles need to man or woman up and quit trying to cheat and the RO's need to follow the rules regardless how insistent the competitor is.

[sfinney]

As said before, Perfect Double = Alpha, Mike.

If you are that good of a shot, please try to aim a little off of your first shot so we can see two grease rings, please.

[russ2400]

The competitors calling doubles need to man or woman up and quit trying to cheat and the RO's need to follow the rules regardless how insistent the competitor is.

In this specific case none of the shooters were arguing that a miss was actually a double, it was rather the scorer/ro who were calling them. Seemed to be based on the actual shooters reputation: "oh Carl's the shooter, must be a double".

It's not a big deal to me, just observing.

[Joe4d]

if you are good enough to put two bullets in one hole, you are good enough to spread em out abit. Seen too many people cry double every single time they miss.

[frankie]

scoring should be done the same way no-matter who the shooter is

[kevin c]

I like the doubles I've shot where I can see two distinct grease rings. That way I know I'm not BS'ing myself or anybody else.

I call other shooters' hits the same way. If I don't see it, I can't call it (and sometimes I'll tell the insistent shooter that I'm not saying it's not there, it's that it is not scoreable as two hits if I can't see both).

[russ2400]

if you are good enough to put two bullets in one hole, you are good enough to spread em out abit.

I like that.

[juan]

how many of the people that scream double, have a 10 inch group at 5 feet? and now all a sudden there annie oakley

[juan]

oh yea this is what I tell them if you can do it again at the same distance and split, i will give you the double,

if you cant you take 2 mike. nobody has taken me up on this.

[RammerJammer]

Ive hit a couple doubles in practice, couldnt do it on purpose if my life depended on it. Not a true 2 in one hole but the when you go to paste it you see two grease rings. I used to shoot regularly with a guy that would shot 5 to 6 a match and never missed...