Lets talk Big Sticks, tubes, springs, followers, base pads, Capacity

[wes777]

We have all heard the rumors, 31 rounds in a big stick. WTH. When I started reading a while back, 29 rounds of 9mm major was pushing it. Then it was "30 is doable if you are loading 38sc". Now I have read someones post, next to a gorgeous blaster, touting 31 rounds. WTH. I have a friend that believes 32 is possible, that one has yet to be seen by this guy, but I am willing to try. -why not.

So today, I took 32 dummy 38sc rounds and loaded them into a brand new SV big stick, without a spring/follower in the mag, just to see how much room would be left for them. EEEERRRR-none. So i am 99.99% that 32 is a pipe dream without a gauge, CNC machine, and a magicians wand with fairy dust sprinkled on my thumbs.

However, 31 left some wiggle room. Now I have to wonder, just what would be necessary to cram that last round in the mag.

Now, I realize that this would be a spring waster, maybe a couple of uses before its off to spring steel heaven. But I would like to have a 31 round mag in my bag at the next level 2+ match. Yes, I understand that it may never make a difference.

--So here is where I am at now:

--STI tube (tuned) with Dawson base pad and grams spring (tuned) with follower and a spacer. 29 +1 9mm. Reliable

With the same tube and base pad, 29+1 38sc. Reliable.

--SVI tube (tuned) with grams spring (tuned) and follower, SVI base pad, 30+1 in both 9/38. Reliable

Same tube and base pad, SVI spring and follower, 29+1 and 30+1 (dependent on the Follower used). Reliable

I have tried a couple of spring and follower combos with little to no advancement.

I would like to hear opinions on the Bolen and Taran lines of springs/followers/base pads for the STI/SVI tubes.

My intention for this thread is to get an idea of what you are using, how you are tuning, and possibly stumble onto the answer that I am looking for. Hopefully there are others who will get something out of it also.

-- List equipment used

-- List capacity achieved, and if necessary, how to achieve it

-- Tell us about reliability

[al503]

I have 5 170mm SVI magazine tubes all tuned by reputable smiths. 4 have Dawson SNL +1's and one has a 4mm Bolen/TTI pad because it wouldn't fit the gauge with the Dawson.

Mags 1-3 have Grams 13 coil springs and followers with a and hold 29 reloadable/ 30 somewhat tight (but not worried that I'm going to crack the grip).

Mags 4 and 5 have the SVI springs and the aluminum ultra capacity red follower. 1 will hold 31 9mm rounds tight and the other will hold 30 reloadable.

Mags 1-3 get used most of the time with 29 rounds while 4 and 5 get used maybe once or twice max a match.

I've found the grams springs to be the most durable even after repeated, full capacity loadings. They just don't seem to wear out. The SVI springs will last ~20 cycles at full capacity reliably and then they start to get very weak. They will still work but I'll change them out for peace of mind.

Capacity between the SVI guts and the older Bolen guts (not sure if they are the same now as they were a few years ago) was pretty comparable. Durability of the Bolen springs was not good, which is why I stopped using them.

All mags are 100% reliable with any of the above mentioned guts.

[MoNsTeR]

Not sure how my experience can be so diametrically opposed, but I find that the Grams (made by Wolff) springs wear out extremely quickly, whereas the Bolens (made by ISMI) last and last.

You will always get better capacity with the Bolen follower than the Grams. Just look at them and you will see why. One way to get that last quarter of a round is to thin the follower even further.

FWIW my 3 SV 170's all hold a reloadable 29 rounds of 9mm, but none will accept a 30th. One of them is very close. I am happy with this. I have seen a 31 round mag (with supercomp, not 9mm), but I'm totally willing to live without owning one.

[rooster mcbee]

I sent my old 90's era 170mm tube to Grams to be tuned. I thought it would end up holding 30+1, but when I got it back, it was 29+1. Before it was 28+1, so I gained some. It's reliable, so that counts for a lot. If I need 31 rounds instead of 30, then I've screwed up somewhere anyway. But still, a 31 round tube would be interesting.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have a old style SVI tube I tuned, Bolen follower and ISMI spring with a Grams 4mm or Dawson "SNL" base pad. It holds 30 rounds and I have been using it for 3 years now and I have not changed anything in it. I actually have a couple of these but my number 1 mag is used 90% of the time. Yes, I do drop it on the ground and it has been kicked a couple of times. It still runs great but must be cleaned when dropped in the sand. 30 rounds is 100% reliable, 31 not so much and 32 rounds not possible using 9mm. It does fit the USPSA gauge with the 4mm and the IPSC gauge with a 2.5mm base pad. Thanks, Eric

[crowmag]

Where can you get the bolen follower?

[Foxbat]

I have not yet seen a stage with no good place to reload. So I always load one less the mag can take, for that extra margin of reliability. Usually that means 29+1, sometimes 28+1.

[JFlowers]

I have often wondered if a PARA mag body, with the body wide much further up the magazine, could be tuned to hold more than a S_I body, which narrows much further down the body. But since no 170 PARA tubes or 30mm bases for PARA's exist, its always just been a thought. I guess I could have someone who knew what they were doing cut two mags and weld them up for me.....

[ChuckS]

Where can you get the bolen follower?

Taran Tactical. Taran bought the Bolen product line. I have not used Taran's springs but I did try Bolen and they did show much shorter life than Grams.

Later,

Chuck

[ChuckS]

I have often wondered if a PARA mag body, with the body wide much further up the magazine, could be tuned to hold more than a S_I body, which narrows much further down the body. But since no 170 PARA tubes or 30mm bases for PARA's exist, its always just been a thought. I guess I could have someone who knew what they were doing cut two mags and weld them up for me.....

I haven't looked real hard for someone to build a Para 170 but let me know if you find somebody. I do have some STI for Para tubes that I have been using for years so I am in no hurry. I am guessing it would get you one more round over a S_I tube.

Later,

Chuck

[ogiebb]

i have 2 9mm 31 round big sticks..one was tuned by Derek of Millenium other was tuned by Glenn Higdon..

they are both old style SV tubes w/ the bottom of the ribs flattened and spread out , im using 4mm taran 4g basepads

, bolen springs and trimmed bolen follower both barely fit the gauge... spring dont last long when i use 31 and they are VERY tight. also scared to use them that much too as i fear i might crack the grip or something : )

Edited August 9, 2013 by ogiebb

[EkuJustice]

Just run my reliable 28 rounder here with grams guts Dawson non snl. Just not paying the money for a 31 rounder I really would have no use for as i wouldn't run a 32 round stage with only 32 rounds and no reload planned as I feel I wouldn't shoot slower as it would be basically Virginia count and I think I could run it faster if I know I have a makeup if need be

[wes777]

I have often wondered if a PARA mag body, with the body wide much further up the magazine, could be tuned to hold more than a S_I body, which narrows much further down the body. But since no 170 PARA tubes or 30mm bases for PARA's exist, its always just been a thought. I guess I could have someone who knew what they were doing cut two mags and weld them up for me.....

Mt Holly. I spent a couple of hours over there last year with Jeff A. He does projects like that. You would have to stay on him about it.... good guy.

[wes777]

I have often wondered if a PARA mag body, with the body wide much further up the magazine, could be tuned to hold more than a S_I body, which narrows much further down the body. But since no 170 PARA tubes or 30mm bases for PARA's exist, its always just been a thought. I guess I could have someone who knew what they were doing cut two mags and weld them up for me.....

I haven't looked real hard for someone to build a Para 170 but let me know if you find somebody. I do have some STI for Para tubes that I have been using for years so I am in no hurry. I am guessing it would get you one more round over a S_I tube.

Later,

Chuck

same guy as I mentioned a minute ago here is his site

http://abernathygunworks.com/Pages/Contact.html

I would be interested to know how this goes.

[JFlowers]

Wes,

My Limited 10 gun was built by Tommy Abernathy, my Open gun's last rebuild was by Jeff.

[wes777]

I figured as much, just thought I would throw it out there just in case.

[40S&W]

Have a Superior 170mm (9mm), with Grams guts & Dawson SNL basepad, no spacer, runs 29+1. Have a STI 170mm (9mm) tube w/spacer, Dawson SNL basepad, runs 29+1 (had to trim the basepad to fit the gage). Both are 100% reliable at 29+1 for load and make ready. Always plan a 140mm reload. Can't see how I can get 30 rounds in the STI 170mm tube (29 is tight with no room to spare). I won't mess with the Superior.