DCS Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) This thread surprised me in the direction it took. It won't benefit my club. We will get the NRA consult, plus perhaps others. The outcome is predictable. I was just looking for a cleaner, quicker solution. Didn't work out. My club and the shooting sports in my state will not benefit if someone feels the need to quote all my original content and preserve it here. I asked a mod to delete the thread, but he declined. I'm deleting my posts and moving on. Thanks. Edited March 23, 2013 by DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Clark Vargas is the guy you need to talk to. I don't know what he bills out per hour. I'll have to do a search, but I am tempted to say his screenname here is something like "rangedoctor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well, I was close. His screenname is actually " Range Doctor ". I'm sure you could find him on facebook too. Or just google his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 https://www.facebook.com/clark.rangedoctor?ref=ts&fref=ts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 NRA has a whole division that does this sort of stuff. They'll even send out a Range Technical Team to review a range or review the plans of a proposed range. Plus, if a legal situation ever arises, it might help your cause to say an NRA Range Technical Team checked it out. You might want to contact them. I think the NRA HQ operator number is (703) 267-1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCS Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) ... Edited March 23, 2013 by DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 you need how tall the berm is how far away from the berm you are shooting at what the highest caliber rnd your shooting is a ballistic chart for the various calibers to be shot from there you can find max range at different degrees of elevation for various calibers then plot your surface danger area impact area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 what ever you decide to do you can always require some sort of practical demonstration for new shooters under the supervision of an experienced shooter in an attempt to mitigate the possibility of shooitng rounds out of the impact area. You can stop and DQ shooters who fires a shot outside the impact area. You can search surface danger zone and use calculations for sdz's like we do in the military, not sure what FM it is but i would search live fire exercises. It all depends on what you are shooing and how far the bullets go. I will tell you that we had to watch things to make sure when setting up stages that bullets went down range and between the range markers on many occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCS Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) ... Edited March 23, 2013 by DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCS Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) ... Edited March 23, 2013 by DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCS Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) ... Edited March 23, 2013 by DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 kinda whay I figured, you are looking for ammo to close the range, or get rid of action shooting. Thats why you dont want actual pros from the NRA to come make an evaluation, you'd rather have a printout of nameless, out house lawyers. My guess is you arnt even affiliated with the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCS Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) ... Edited March 23, 2013 by DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Before you get yourself in a total self-indignant wad, please understand that those of here have no real feel for for your situation. We can look at a map of any range and point out impact zones that might be a problem, but without a first-hand knowledge of that particular range, it's meaningless. We're with you, but from a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I don't know if this will hurt or help. Goggle Big Darby Creek Shooting Range. They were shut down a couple of years ago. A company a mile away said they found bullets that came from the range and took it to court. It was a nice range. I shot some IDPA matches there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCS Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) ... Edited March 23, 2013 by DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 You've been a bit indignant because you didn't get the response level you anticipated. We're pretty smart on these matters, but we're not omniscient. We'd like to help, but short of actually seeing the range in question, there's little I/we can do. Your position on the matter is singular, and understandable. Please understand if ours is not. You know...it's just possible that the MD's you reference are correct. But since I'm not there, I can't say for certain. No one else can, either, from a distance. Best wishes to you for your efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmerritt Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Dave, look at the Albany gun club or Sherwood gun club, notice the relationship of the fwy & hwy for both ranges. look at the distance between the 200 yd line @ prsc & the keating/hwy 86 junction = 1 mile. Any rifle could shoot that far !. look at the range in vale, they shoot 600 & pistol at the same Time & the pistol range is down range & off to the right. the nra checked it out & thought said it was a great range. The only thing that leaves our pistol bays, is sometimes the jacket, off of a bullet. the construction & composition of the bays are every bit as good as the desert sportsmens club in Las Vegas, where the nationals have been for quite a few yrs. the rifle range poses more risk, but you seem to only want to look at the pistol bays, why is that? you have shot, what, 5-6 uspsa matches?, you really need to get out and shoot more, get some experience , and someday, if you shoot enough steel, you will get hit with a jacket, but im sure that Will be another safety issue... Ray Merritt - A61067 RO NRA certified pistol instructor NRA Range Safety Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmerritt Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 dont worry Dave, i printed all this out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCS Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Ray, this isn't what you want. I pointed out a few months ago that we had a potential problem. Rather than address it, we've argued whether it's a problem. The height of the south-facing sidewall of each bay is as follows: Bay 1 - 6' 9". Bay 2 - 7' 4". Bay 3 - 7' 4". Bay 4 - 7' 4". Bay 5 - 8' 6". You were the number 1 person involved in construction of these bays. You are the MD who is conducting a match in these bays 2 days from now. There is a public highway and a BLM OHV park within range of pistol and rifle bullets fired over the berm in a southward direction. You cannot control when or where AD's occur, but you can control what you do to stop them or to mitigate risk to nearby facilities. You like to fight Ray, but you have nothing to hang your hat on here. You can post all you want to and say anything you want, but you only have one out of five sidewalls that reaches 8 feet in height. One is actually less than 7 feet. I suggest you go get some advice and can it. And print away my friend. The more people in our club who see this, the better. Unfortunately, the more people outside our club who watch us air our dirty laundry, the greater the chance that this whole thing snowballs out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Gentlemen, I suggest that if there is any "animosity" between you two, that it doesn't need to come out here on a public forum. This forum is not like that, we try to keep things civil. If you want to chew on each other, please use the pm function of the forum. That being said, I can see both sides of the issue. Safety, as far as berms are concerned, can be a matter of perspective. In one perspective, the berm heights you list are satisfactory, with the likelyhood of an AD going over them is pretty low. While in the other perspective, an AD might could get over a 50 foot tall berm. There is no right or wrong answer, the answer is what works for your club and / or your conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Gentlemen, I suggest that if there is any "animosity" between you two, that it doesn't need to come out here on a public this forum. This forum is not like that, we try to keep things civil. That about covers it, Please don't try to turn this into an internet "who's right" contest. It won't go far. Trust me on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmerritt Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Just to make one point, the berms were measured with a long pole and a tape measure, not a very accurate measurement, you should have used a transit....there is nothing on the other side of bay 1, except sagebrush, for miles......NUFF SAID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Gentlemen, I suggest that if there is any "animosity" between you two, that it doesn't need to come out here on a public forum. This forum is not like that, we try to keep things civil. If you want to chew on each other, please use the pm function of the forum. That being said, I can see both sides of the issue. Safety, as far as berms are concerned, can be a matter of perspective. In one perspective, the berm heights you list are satisfactory, with the likelyhood of an AD going over them is pretty low. While in the other perspective, an AD might could get over a 50 foot tall berm. There is no right or wrong answer, the answer is what works for your club and / or your conscience. +1 Looking at the range it is like many. Shots in an obviously unsafe direction will be an issue. That is why we put berms up. They are designed to help contain the bullets that are fired in the safe directions. Would I prefer berms that are 12' tall between the bays? YES! Is 15' better? YES! Would i worry about someone shooting a round off in a Southerly direction while shooting in a bay that has the back berm in a North Easterly direction? NO, that requires the shot to be fired while facing up range. I would be a lot more worried if the bays were facing in a Southerly direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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