DCS

Correct - never used. I ran a small 3-gun series on Ironman rules last year and into this year. Never had more than 14 guys, and Ironman scoring is so fast and simple that i never bothered to set-up PS for those small matches. We have a USPSA group here, but they weren't interested in Nook scoring, so never used. Big thanks to BE forum for allowing our club to list this kit for sale. Repeat: we are a 501 non-profit. Kit is offered at our cost. This is a good kit. It may as well go to good use somewhere. Link with photos and details: http://prsportsmen.com/nook.html

Found this old thread using search. It was a very helpful thread at the time. Thanks to all who contributed. At the time I started the thread, our club bought a gen 1 ipad and 9 new nooks and the bright green Amazon cases linked on page 1 and a cordless HooToo router and an Ankor charger base. I rooted the nooks, installed PS & a calc & a clock & Opera browser. I loaded PS on the blank ipad and networked the lot. I didn't use the DropBox route. I even goofed around long enough to put a custom screensaver image in the /system/media/screensaver and the /system/media/screensaver/authors directories. Long story short: they never got used. I just charged the lot and checked everything - still 100%. Our club is a non-profit. I don't have enough posts to gain access to the BE classifieds. Maybe the mods will permit this post. We'd like to sell the lot to a club who will use them, just to recover our purchase price and no more. Funds payable to PRSC (non-profit!). If the mods allow this, and if anyone is interested, pm me and I will email you full info. DS

Are Nook NST's still available anywhere, or has the supply dried up? Are Nook NST's still popular anywhere, or have people found better platforms? Thx.

Tree bark. Funny! Thanks to all! This is great information. I guess dust and water drops will be a problem regardless of which tablet is used. There is a large consensus (here and other threads) that an ipad is better than a nook for the master. We really appreciate the feedback. Best, Dave

I have some general PS questions. Small club in a rural area, techie-people are the minority, small budget. Most matches have 35 shooters, but we may have an 11-bay Sectional every third year or so. We have a few guys who want to go PS. The remainder are impartial. No internet at our range, but we can use a portable router to create a range network. After doing some reading, my impression is that the NST offers the best combination of price, daylight readability, and battery life. Discontinued but still available. Easy to root(-n-score-it). Until the android upload capabilities are fleshed out, we can synch to an old ios device for uploading scores. Etc. If we want to be serious about establishing full PS capability, we'll need 18 NST devices: 11 slaves, 1 master, and 6 long-term backup units (purchased now because they are available now and importantly, because they are cheap now). We'll also need a portable router and a used ios device. We are discussing various perspectives: Does USPSA require paper back-up scoring at major matches that use PS? Do most PS clubs routinely run paper back-up? After the match, do stats officers verify device scores with paper scoresheets before uploading to USPSA? What percentage of USPSA clubs are currently running PS? Does anyone know? My perception after reading is that USPSA and PS are wholly separate entities. Correct? There is a belief here that USPSA will eventually require clubs to score matches with PS. Is that correct? If so, it seems unwise. USPSA receives scores in USPSA format. How the scores are collected and compiled is irrelevant. Am I missing something? My perception is that there are no other tablets or readers available in the $55 range that match the NST's proven features: durability, readability, heat tolerance and battery life. Have I overlooked any? Pros (PS on NST): Auto-fill during match registration, Eliminates hand-entering scores after match, Faster delivery of scores after match, Cool factor. Cons: Expensive compared to paper, Requires fleet root & set-up, Requires training of RO's, Electronics will fail. Is it possible to effectively run PS at a match on personal phones of appointed shooters? Does anyone do this? If you network personal phones to a range master device on a range router, are there security or privacy issues? Any workaround? A week ago, I knew nothing about PS. The club asked me to look into it, so I did some reading. Thanks in advance for any answers you can provide. This will help us arrive at a decision.

Ray, this isn't what you want. I pointed out a few months ago that we had a potential problem. Rather than address it, we've argued whether it's a problem. The height of the south-facing sidewall of each bay is as follows: Bay 1 - 6' 9". Bay 2 - 7' 4". Bay 3 - 7' 4". Bay 4 - 7' 4". Bay 5 - 8' 6". You were the number 1 person involved in construction of these bays. You are the MD who is conducting a match in these bays 2 days from now. There is a public highway and a BLM OHV park within range of pistol and rifle bullets fired over the berm in a southward direction. You cannot control when or where AD's occur, but you can control what you do to stop them or to mitigate risk to nearby facilities. You like to fight Ray, but you have nothing to hang your hat on here. You can post all you want to and say anything you want, but you only have one out of five sidewalls that reaches 8 feet in height. One is actually less than 7 feet. I suggest you go get some advice and can it. And print away my friend. The more people in our club who see this, the better. Unfortunately, the more people outside our club who watch us air our dirty laundry, the greater the chance that this whole thing snowballs out of control.

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This thread surprised me in the direction it took. It won't benefit my club. We will get the NRA consult, plus perhaps others. The outcome is predictable. I was just looking for a cleaner, quicker solution. Didn't work out. My club and the shooting sports in my state will not benefit if someone feels the need to quote all my original content and preserve it here. I asked a mod to delete the thread, but he declined. I'm deleting my posts and moving on. Thanks.

Hey - thanks for posting this info!

Thanks to all for the feedback. Mark, thanks for the excellent suggestions and generous offer. I will inform the officers of your offer and contact you soon if we go that way. To be honest, we have excellent internal resources (multiple NRA certs, NROI RO's, etc). This was just a curious event where priorities seemed to temporarily jumble. Between the feedback here and our own resources, I suspect we'll move beyond this fairly quickly. Thanks again to all. Still interested in anecdotal over-the-berm or ricochet experiences if anyone cares to share. Kevin, thanks for the addtl info. Dave

Thanks Scott. Well put. Kevin, thanks for your comments about ricochets getting out, and shooting rules in that one bay. Please keep it coming. It'd be great to hear more feedback on layout or ricochets. Regards, Dave

Does USPSA keep national DQ stats? Would it be possible to determine how many DQ's in 2012 in the U.S. were due to shots fired over the berm? Here's why I'm asking: My club is considering construction of additional pistol bays (8' to 10' berms on 3 sides). The new bays would have an eastward primary direction of fire. The 180 arc of fire would permit "sideways" fire in the north and south direction. There is a public highway 420 yards south of the proposed new bay location. We are having a civilized argument about this. Some feel that southward fire inside the bays would present no hazard to the public hwy. I and others disagree, and see no reason that a firing range should be built such that potential impact areas pose risk to passersby. I believe the argument can be settled purely on the basis of the possibility of a round fired over the berm. Hence my question: how many such DQ's occur per year nationally? FWIW, my experience is that multiple ricochets also regularly exit our existing bays during matches, probably primarily from shots that hit the ground behind low targets and bounce up to then glance off a rock on the berm wall and out they go. We have some members who feel that no ricochets ever exit the bays. To avoid bogging on that issue, I hope to focus initial argument on accidental shots fired over the berm. Thanks in advance for stats, as well as commentary and suggestions.

This is a reality for a lot of folks. This applied to roughly 70% of the participants at our match, including my son and I. I can't believe I didn't recognize it mid-match. Our scoresheets have a 300 second penalty for "failure to perform the required challenge". Next chance I get, I'll ask our MD if one-shotting a rifle or pistol or slug spinner results in that penalty.

Bumping this thread again. Curious what others think about spinners. My son and I are in our 2nd year of practical shooting, 1st year of 3-gun. Our goals: develop practical skills and have some fun at the local level. We shoot LTD; we’re pretty competitive on USPSA or 3-gun stages that require the shooter to neutralize targets with reasonable hits. I like spinners for shot at nearer distances. Practically speaking, maybe they resemble "hinge-buster" targets or other possible realistic shotgun scenarios. Logistically, they're speedy because no reset is required. On a good day, we flip them in 3 shots, give or take. I've seen guys flip them with one hi-dram #6 on the bottom plate. Even if you completely goof it up after 4 shots, you're still holding a weapon with enough power and rounds to finish the target without reloading. IMO, there's nothing "un-practical" about a spinner used as a shot target. I don't like spinners for pistol or rifle or slugs for two reasons: 1 - they require an impractical round count for completion while mirroring no practical application I can think of. IMO - they are a gamer target rather than a practical target. If you shoot 10 centerfire rounds and make 7 scoring hits on a single "special timing required" target and the target is still not neutralized, this is not a practical engagement. If you hit a 10" plate with a slug at any range and the target is not neutralized, this is not a practical engagement. 2 - the penalty for failure to spin is vastly higher than anything else a reasonable shooter might face. There's only one reason for this - to encourage the practical shooter to develop his gamer skills. If failure to spin cost 10 seconds rather than 60, I would definitely opt for shooting the top plate with one rifle or pistol bullet or one shotgun slug before going straight to the next target. Why penalize the practical shooter 60 seconds? The answer: gamer target. My son and I just completed a 3-gun match that included 4 spinners: 90yd rifle, 60yd slug, 15yd shot, 15yd pistol. We both shot well enough at all targets except the rifle, pistol, and slug spinners. On those we went down in flames and it really showed on the scoresheet. Plus, it was frustrating. We’re pretty good shots, and it showed everywhere except the spinners because we have no experience with them and haven’t developed our spinner skills. It wasn't fun. The obvious solution is to drive the 60mile round trip to the range a few times, get the spinners out, and devote time and ammunition to developing our gamer skills. The only problem is, we don't want to. We're not interested in doing that. We're not in it for that side of the game. I recognize and respect that not all shooters share this view. I'm just initiating a discussion on the nature of the growing repertoire of targets we see in the wide-open world of 3-Gun/Multi-gun. I've never seen a Polish plate rack or a Helicopter, but I've heard of them. I'm sure there are other carnival-style challenging steel targets in the pipeline, because that seems to be the direction a lot of people want to go. I’m curious what others might think. Do you make a distinction between practical and gaming-style targets or matches? Preference?

Lizard Litter pet bedding from PetSmart or Walmart. 12lbs for $8. This is small grain crushed walnut hulls. If you know someone in the oil drilling industry, the rigs buy truckloads of 50lb bags of crushed walnut hulls, known as nut-plug. They mix it in the drilling fluid. It would be nothing to get a leftover 25lbs from them. It's really inexpensive stuff. Find a drilling fluids vendor like Halliburton or Baker Highes etc, buy a 50lb bag from them. I bet they'd sell you one for $10.

Update: We've shot 2 matches using both guns. No problems. They run great. The 28" 12g feels just fine, plenty quick. Because the barrel taper leaves only .840" OD at 4" back, your only option if you want a shorter barrel is TruChoke. IMO, too thin for 3-Gun duty. I'm leaving mine at 28". The gun is light and points really fast. The 20g is our hands-down favorite. It's a little monster! The factory 24" barrel is perfect! The weatherby adult 20g buttstock gives a nice finished look. The gun is fully effective on short and medium range steel with modified choke running #6 game loads. We like the full choke for long steel. With modified choke, POA = POI at 15, 25, 45 and 100 yards with 2 3/4" Remington Sluggers from Bi-mart. I'm not kidding. You just aim and shoot. My 13yr old son wants to use it on deer this year just to see what happens. We had 100-yard 2'x2' plates at yesterday's match, offhand! My son was 4 for 4 on those plates! The recoil is very moderate. Tiny gun, great results. The Nordic tubes have been flawless. Factory trigger is fine. I hogged out the load ports and polished the exposed aluminum. I cut the lifters to avoid thumb-grab. The factory lifters have a curved V in the tip. Keep the port side intact. Extend the diagonal from the port-side V, backwards. This cuts off the entire inside "fork", leaving a big diagonal section missing from the tip of the lifter. Runs like a champ and won't bite your thumb. That's it. I highly recommend this gun. I'm building a another 20g simply because they're so fun and effective. Now we just gotta learn to load!

Thanks kellyn. We'll take your advice!

My first match is this weekend, I'm shooting Limited with a dissy with A2 sights. My long-range load is 68gr Hrndy BTHP at 2750fps. Yesterday I did the revised improved battlesight mod and zeroed the gun at 100yd with 8/3 minus 3clicks on the elevation dial. I then shot benchrest at 100, 50, 300, 400, and 500 yards. At 50 yards, I turned the elevation dial to 8/3 minus 2 clicks and it was on zero. At 300 yards, I turned the dial to 8/3 + 1 to achieve zero. At 400 yards, it required dial #4 + 3 clicks to achieve zero. At 500 yards, it required dial #5 + 3 clicks to achieve zero. Generally, the results were exceptional. Better than 4 moa at all ranges. I marked the dial with a white paint pen at each yardage so I can dial right to the desired mark. The long targets at our matches are all big gongs; up to 40" at the longer ranges. We shoot to 500 yards. With a 100yd zero, my come-ups are 4, 16, 36, and 67" at 2, 3, 4 and 500 yards. My questions: For long stages in 3-gun, do you guys leave the dial alone and shoot come-ups, or do you twist the dial as you progress through the stage short to long, aiming dead-on? Do you adjust the windage dial for wind correction, or do you use kentucky windage and blast till you hit it? If the range has a steady 12mph cross wind and you adjust 3 clicks on the windage dial to hit 300 yard targets, will the same windage adjustment be on target at 500 yards if the wind does not change, or will you need more clicks? (noob) Thanks!

Thanks, I'll look for the low recoil slugs.

The Nordic Components tubes #EXT-BR-12-x and #EXT-BR-20-x are a perfect fit for Weatherby SA-08 12g and 20g shotguns (x = the number of extra shells). The Weatherby factory mag tube holds 4 rounds, but it has a roll crimp at the distal end that must be removed before installing an extension. Procedure: Unload & disassemble the gun. Push the steel “flip-washer” into the tube, tip it sideways with your finger and drag it back out. The magazine plug will then fall out. Behind the plug is a plastic cap over the spring. The cap is too big to get past the roll crimp. Cut a 20” length of baling wire and straighten it. Insert it through the hole in the spring cap, all the way down the mag tube and through the hole in the follower. Tie a small washer to the distal end of the baling wire. Pull the wire from the receiver backwards to compress the spring half way into the tube, tie it off. Vice the gun and pack some wads of Kleenex into the tube end. Use a dremel sanding drum on half speed to carefully sand the crimp away. Take only the crimp; do not cut into the inner tube wall. Use a file to dress the tip of the tube. Release the wire so that the paper towels and cap and spring come out the front of the tube. Clean the tube. The Nordic tube is made of three parts: nut, tube and threaded cap. The machining, fit and finish on the parts is excellent. Degrease the fine threads on the nut and tube mouth. Lightly oil the coarse threads on the nut. Fully assemble the gun using the Nordic nut, then thread the Nordic tube into the nut. The Nordic tube will contact the Weatherby tube just before it bottoms out in the Nordic nut, and may leave a very small gap between the tube shoulder and the nut shoulder. If you have a gap, decide if you can live with it. If so, remove the Nordic tube from the nut, put a drop of blue loctite on the tube threads, and thread it back home. Leave it to dry. If you don’t like a gap between nut and tube, measure the gap, disassemble the gun, then use a file to remove material from the tip of the Weatherby tube in an amount almost equal to the gap you measured. Work slowly, keep the file perpendicular to the tube axis, and do not remove to much material! Test the fit frequently on a completely assembled gun. This step is easier than it sounds, BUT, if you take off too much material, there will be an internal gap in your magazine which may impair function, so work slowly. Loctite the nut on the tube when you get the fit you want. Completely assemble the gun with tube extension. Remove the distal threaded end cap of the Nordic tube. Bend the proximal end of the Nordic spring to turn it down and flatten it. Insert the Weatherby follower and Nordic spring into the tube until the follower bottoms out. You’ll have 2 feet of spring hanging out the distal end. Cut the spring so that 16” of spring is extending beyond the tube, and bend the distal spring end flat. Using the Weatherby plastic spring cap under the Nordic threaded cap, assemble the gun and test the function. If the spring is too stiff or won’t allow 8 rounds loaded, cut another inch off the spring and try again. Nordic says that a minimum of 12” of spring must extend beyond the tube. My 20g is at 15” and my 12g is at 15.5”. When finished, I put a teensy drop of blue loctite on these threads also. Just enough to make the cap stubborn. Comments: Winchester Low Profile Shotgun Sight Kit: $10 at Walmart. It comes with four different sights to accommodate various ribs. The 9/32 green sight fit the 20g, and the 5/16” red sight fit the 12g. I used dabs of loctite at each corner to promote retention. $5 each = too funny. The ATI SMC1100 clamps are advertised as 12g only, but they work perfectly on the 20g too. $10 each online. They are plastic. If they fail, we’ll try better clamps from NC. The Nordic tubes are $76 each at Midway. I bought the youth 20g three years ago for $440. The youth model comes with a 24” barrel and 12.5” LOP. My son outgrew it in 2011, so I added the ¾” spacer. He promptly outgrew it before ever shouldering the gun, so I never even painted it. This week I’ll buy an adult Weatherby 20g stock for $45, which is a direct bolt-on to the receiver to provide 14” LOP. As pictured, this gun weighs 6lbs 3oz unloaded. It points really fast, and it cycled 8 rds twice in the maiden test. 1st match is in 2 weeks. I’m definitely going to try a few matches with this thing myself. I’ve had a Deluxe SA-08 26” 12g for 3 years and was considering buying plastic furniture for it to run it in 3-Gun. However, I discovered Bi-Mart is discontinuing the SA-08 line and has them marked down to $349 each if you can find one. My local store ordered a transfer from another store after I prepaid. You can only get the 28” 12g, but wow what a price! It weighs 7lbs 4oz as pictured (unloaded) and it also points really fast. The barrel OD is .840” at the 1st rib back, which means it could be cut back 4” and threaded for TruChoke, but I plan to run it as is for a while. These shotguns come with 3 chokes (F, M, IC) and 2 gas pistons (light and heavy). I asked Weatherby what would happen if the occasional slug is fired over the light piston during a match. They said that the action forces will be more violent and the felt recoil will increase, but it will take hundreds of cycles before things start to get damaged. I anticipate 25 slugs per season locally, so I’m not worried about it.