Graham Smith Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 One question I've run across lately is the issue of match size. We generally run matches that have 6 - 7 stages and are in the are in the 130-140 round region. With ammo shortages being what they are, is anyone giving any consideration to running slightly smaller matches for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 My thought is that it might hurt the new or newer shooters as they may not be able to find ammo in the stores and/or it becomes too costly for them. The "old guys" more than likely are prepared and have been through this before so you probably don't have to worry about them. Keep in mind too that some shooters are relying on your match as their only match practice. Maybe they cut down or eliminate traveling if supplies are tight and just focus on your local. I say keep it the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Do you mean shorter stages? Fewer stages? Combination of both? The only reduction I might do is in the number of rounds. I would do this by reducing the total available targets while increasing the difficulty. Instead of 3 wide open targets I would use 2 tighter targets. Instead of 4 steel which people tend to miss (6 or 7 shots to take down the 4 pieces) I would use 2 steel and a paper. Rather than 2 stars on a stage, 1 star and a couple of extra paper. Most stages are not the total round count needed to shoot it clean, it is the total round count needed to take down all of the steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Most stages are not the total round count needed to shoot it clean, it is the total round count needed to take down all of the steel. That's part of what's in my mind as well and it's a point well taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 When I go to a local I am shooting all of about a minute and a half to two minutes. I literally want the most bang during that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) At least half the stages we do allow for a lot of freestyle run-and-gun. The longer stages typically include 4 - 8 poppers. We also make use of mini-poppers and 8" and 10" plates. As was mentioned earlier, the less experienced shooters are prone to firing more makeup rounds (at steel) and they are also more prone to shooting factory ammunition. And with that in short supply... Edited February 18, 2013 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 There have been other posts about this but my preferred method of design allows for multiple ways of shooting a stage. Leave them with the choice of a closer and easier shot at the cost of time, or a distance shot that removes the need to run to that position. Targets available from 2 to 3 positions so that SS, Prod, and Lim/Open can form plans that fit their division. We already have shooters who are cutting back due to a lack of reloading supplies or factory ammunition. It is tough balancing the need to challenge the shooter while keeping the total round count down to a manageable level that allows people with limited amounts of ammo to still compete. 100 rounds is easy for most people. 150 starts to tighten things up. Above 150 really cuts into the number. It is not so much the expense as it is the availability. Most local stores are limiting ammo to one box and the 250 count boxes are few and far between, so multiple 50's can take several days. When your primers are gone and you are limited to 200 if they have them in stock it has the same effect. We have a couple of shooters who are only waiting on bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMadWorld Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I would think if the shooters like the current matches as is then leave it that way. Possibly replace a few steel targets with paper. That is one thing I have done with stage designs to change how difficult the stage design is. Twenty yard paper is easier on less experiences shooters than twenty yard mini popper shots. I got myself hung up on a twenty yard mini this past weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAB33 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I would go practice over going to a match that is cutting back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 When I go to a local I am shooting all of about a minute and a half to two minutes. I literally want the most bang during that time. +1. Takes me 2hours driving, and 3-4 hours standing around to shoot for two minutes - PLEASE keep more stages and more rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I say keep the round counts as they are. Most people have cut back or eliminated practice to conserve ammo. They are using the local matches for practice and want or expect a good match of 130-150 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too_Slow Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Heck here in Michigan our club was running 220 to 250 round monthly matches last year with 8 or 9 stages. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I say keep the round counts as they are. Most people have cut back or eliminated practice to conserve ammo. They are using the local matches for practice and want or expect a good match of 130-150 rounds. My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY NEAL Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 After careful consideration with my match brain trust (w00f and Too Slow), we have decided that we will be keeping things pretty much the same at the Wayne County Raccoon Hunters club (www.ipsc66.org). We run typically 9 stages (8 field courses and a classifier) for around 200+ rounds. We have many international competitors traveling 5-6 hours one way to shoot our match since no one else in the area does what we do. We have a bunch of really nice guys from Akron Ohio driving up every month to the Detroit area for our match. A group comes from west of Grand Rapids as well. How can we look them in the eye and tell them that the newer shooter who has not prepared properly is more important than these folks who have supported us over the years? Taking care of the new shooter over your long term customers (and that is what they are since they pay to play) is not a way to do good business. If you want special consideration at our club, you earn it. Come to our match's and contribute by RO'ing, helping us tear down, bring a group of shooters from a distance ect........we'll help anyone get started but at our range we raise the bar. If you want in, then raise your game and work for it. Taking this mindset which is fostered by our entire group has really proven to be a great way to recruit more folks and eliminate the complaining on our range. We realize that shooting isn't cheap and is time consuming, but why dumb down the match just a few folks? Show them the proper way to do things and let them go from there. If they can't commit to being properly prepared and quit, then what did you really lose? Cater to your core group of shooters who want a good round count, build good stages and shooters will vote with thier feet. It really is that simple. Good stages with fun round counts will make your match a success. Everything else can be tweaked or improved as you go along but don't lose focus on your stages/round count. Best Regards and wishes for your match's this summer, Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunchies95 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Our match attendence has dropped in recent months. A quick survey of shooters said that it was ammo avaiability. A large portion of the people who shoot at my club have to buy ammo. We normally run 5-6 stages with about 125-135 rounds. Last match we dropped the minimum to 110 rounds to ensure that the match could be shot with 3 boxes of ammo. Replaced the distant steel with paper, but still had a texas star. Speed shoot consisted of 16 rounds with 4 dissapearing targets that were very quick. It didn't help boost attendance as there is still no ammo available unless you want to pay 50-60 cents a round (and even then it is hard to find). But we did get some very positive feedback on our stage designs and the match overall. We put on very good matches with a somewhat limited round count. Just need to be a bit creative with your designs. I think I would rather have some challenging stages with less rounds than see how fast you can pull the trigger. Each area and even club is going to have to come up with its own solution given their composition of regular shooters. Roy, If you guys can still pull in the number of shooters that you have been without changing a thing, go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY NEAL Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Michael, You coming back north this summer to try out our match again? The evil things we have planned............just sayin....... Yes, you should bring extra rounds as you will have to shoot each stage at least 2 times just in case you did really well on it so that we give you the opportunity to screw it up. Because we are givers........... R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Around here where I shoot they all have a match with only about 100 -120 rounds.I drive 2 1/2 hours to two matches,and I won't do it for 80 to 90 rounds if they cut down the round count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 *rasing hand* I'll vote for keeping a decent round count. I've cut back some on practicing in favor of shots at a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 *rasing hand* I'll vote for keeping a decent round count. I've cut back some on practicing in favor of shots at a match. THIS... Practice was usually 2 runs of 8-10 rounds on a particular stage setup. Now it's one run. I'm reloading for the Ohio Championship this weekend and putting those 500 rounds away. BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 What we are doing for now is cutting back just a bit. Rather than 140-150 rounds, we are trimming back to 120-125 rounds. Just eliminating a couple targets per stage and spreading things out a bit, Fact is, we have had too much of a tendency to cluster targets together, I really don't think this will hurt us. The tougher question is not the round count, it's the number of rounds the average shooter will take. Put a paper target at 40' and most people will shoot it twice. Put a steel at 40' and they will shoot till it goes down. The least experienced shooters are the most likely to waste shots and are least likely to be reloaders with a good supply of ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpbaer Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Graham, You guys put on the most fun matches. Those close cluster targets are burning up some ammo but I would not change a thing. The ammo thing will pass. I just wont waste any on practice and will come to your match . THE MORE THE BETTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Like other clubs, the first match will be when we find out what will and won't work. I want to do what works best for the most people. Everything is a trade off. This is one reason I've been recruiting more people to design stages - more people means more points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herky Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 "We have a bunch of really nice guys from Akron Ohio driving up every month to the Detroit area for our match." Roy, I think that is the nicest thing you ever said about those guys! Roy and his gang have exported their match style and we now have another clubs stepping up to seven or eight stages each month. The only problem I've ever heard expressed about more stages is, in the heat, they can be a very long day (especially for those of us who are "senior"). His point about catering to the core group is right, without this group the match would not be successful. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too_Slow Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Herky he says nice things about them al the time just not to them. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunchies95 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Michael, You coming back north this summer to try out our match again? The evil things we have planned............just sayin....... Yes, you should bring extra rounds as you will have to shoot each stage at least 2 times just in case you did really well on it so that we give you the opportunity to screw it up. Because we are givers........... R I'm going to try. Just depends on if I can get sent up there for work on the right weekend. Or I will just shoot the MI sectional for a special trip up. You still need to talk me into a new Infinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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