Let's get real! Revolvers are not competitive in Production.

[Blueridge]

My initial post from the other thread that Carmoney quoted explained my definition of competitive. It is that a revolver shooter of COMPARABLE CLASSIFICATION could be competitive with an auto shooter of same in production division. Being competitive does not mean being able to win the overall in production division. I'll likely never win overall in revolver division or production division, but I still consider myself competitive (even using my Ruger Alaskan).

Ask anyone who has come in behind revolver shooters in production or overall if they believe that a revolver is competitive against them. I believe that they will have to say yes.

(as a side note)

I am a 12 time (out of the last 13years) qualifier to and competitor in the US Fencing Nationals. I have never finished in first place, but that does not mean that I am not competitive in the events that I compete in. Winning overall and being competitive are two different things.

[Blueridge]

My initial post from the other thread that Carmoney quoted explained my definition of competitive. It is that a revolver shooter of COMPARABLE CLASSIFICATION could be competitive with an auto shooter of same in production division. Being competitive does not mean being able to win the overall in production division. I'll likely never win overall in revolver division or production division, but I still consider myself competitive (even using my Ruger Alaskan).

Ask anyone who has come in behind revolver shooters in production or overall if they believe that a revolver is competitive against them. I believe that they will have to say yes.

(as a side note)

I am a 12 time (out of the last 13years) qualifier to and competitor in the US Fencing Nationals. I have never finished in first place, but that does not mean that I am not competitive in the events that I compete in. Winning overall and being competitive are two different things.

This issue arose on the other thread where we are discussing the pros and cons of possibly adding the 8-shot minor revolver as an option for Revolver Division. Several responders in that discussion suggested that the place for 8-minor revolvers is Production Division. I thought it was worthy of a separate discussion, hence this new thread.....

8-shot Revolvers are never going to be seriously competitive in Production, at anything other than the local schlep level.

I have to disagree with you on this Carmoney. There are revolver shooters using 6 shots at every classification level who can give auto shooters of like classification a run for their money (aka. be competitive with them). Using an 8 shot revolver would likely make them even more competitive in production.

Blueridge, I think you've been breathing too many exhaust fumes off your Ruger Alaskan again. ;-)

Take two competitors of roughly equal capability, and have one shooter run the match with an 8-shot revolver. The other guy shoots with a Production-legal autoloader. I contend the guy with the auto is going to win virtually every time.

Unlike many of the active revolver shooters on here, I compete a lot in Production and Single Stack divisions. I know how those divisions compare to Revolver.

I'm also willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'm a A-class shooter in Production, OK? So I'm a decent shooter in Production, but nothing particularly special. Here's my challenge:

I'll shoot any 2013 major USPSA match with my XD9 heads-up against anybody who is willing to shoot an iron-sighted 8-shot revolver in Production Division, and I'll willing to put $100 on it.

Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham might beat me. But those guys are at least 10-15% ahead of me in Revo. Saddle them with 8-shot 627s and moonclips and give me a 10-shot pistol with a sweet trigger and faster reloads, and I'll still give them a very decent run for it.

I think I can beat everybody else.

Who wants to take me up on my challenge?

Carmoney, I'll admit that I don't think that I have the skills to take you up on that bet. That still does not mean that I or anyone else can't be competitive in Production division shooting an 8 shot revolver. I don't think that someone beating you with the parameters you set would change your mind. At best if you lost you would simply eat crow and move on.

[toothguy]

Competitive is a relative term. Do you mean able to win the division at top level? No it will not unless something crazy happens.

Do you mean that the same guy will always do better with a auto vs revo? Overall that is true because most people shoot autos more. I know for a fact that i would do better with the revo everytime and that is because I spend my time there. Of course Rob is going to do better with an auto, the number of rounds he has put through and auto is many times more than I will shoot in my life.

Being competitive is a very subjective term. If you finish in the middle or bottom of the pack, does it matter if it was a revo or auto? Is either on competitive?

[in625shooter]

I am "one of those shooter's", that uses his 627 in Production. Just posted such in the other thread...

I think it "revolve's" (pun intended) around your individual theory of competing vs being "competitive".

I KNOW that I'll likely never win a Production match with my 627. I sometime's shoot my Glock 19 in Production, or my 1911 in SS, where I'm MUCH more "competitive" in the overall local matches.

BUT, I don't care. If I was only concerned with winning Production, I would shoot my Glock. For that matter, I should sell my 19 carry gun, for a 34 to have my best shot at being competitive.

RIGHT NOW, there is only one place where I can shoot the 627 to capacity, and shoot my light 38 short Colts for both recoil and quick re-loading. While I give up two or three shots in capacity to the automatics, I still get to shoot the gun I LOVE TO SHOOT and compete. I'll always have my sights set on those that place above me as a barometer of my progress. And, always work towards getting better.

Do I compare my stages against anyone shooting in the revolver class? Absolutely! I've even considered getting some Starline brass to load Major 38's to use in L-10, just to see how that affects my overall placement in the match.

The bottom line is this; I still have a place to:

1. Use the gun I love to use.
   
2. Still have most of the challenges of using the revolver (I don't have to worry about those 8 shot strings though, so long as I don't miss!).
   
3. Have more competition than I know what to do with... I figure that IF I can beat the auto's on their own ground, I'll only become better (and will be that much better with the auto...).
   

That being said, IF 8 shot minor was approved for Revolver, I would switch in a heartbeat! For that matter, even if it remained 6 shot, but the 7th was a penalty (instead of a bump to open), I might still try that... Not sure whether it would be Major or Minor though... Those 38SC sure shoot sweat!

Buffalobolt, You pretty much hit it on the head for me and for probobly a lot of us. While everyone likes to win or do well some of us love shooting what we love shooting just for the fun of it. Sometimes folks forget shooting is suppose to BE FUN.

For myself I have always liked revolvers, started out on them and even carried them in the military (USAF) up until 1991. I am a Firearms and Tactical Trainer for a Federal Agency so by the weekend I am "Tactic'd Out" so when I shoot then it's to relax and to unwind. I personally could care less about taking a trophy, being #1 etc. I have nothing to prove. If I competed for a job, sponsorship etc it would be different but it's just a relaxing hobby for me. My serious shooting time is through the work week and I am blessed at having the job I do but like some I just like to enjoy others company at any IPSC, IDPA, ICOR etc match and thats a win for me.

[GOF]

There are a lot of great points made here about a 8 shot revolver being competitive in USPSA Production Division. There are good thoughts on both sides of the arguement.

Why not just let the shooters shoot them, and then see what the results are?

A good revolver shooter can crank out rounds pretty quickly (i've shot on the same squad with JM in IDPA a time or two and still marvel at his ability). I also know that, depending on the COFs, a six shot SSR revolver can be competitive in IDPA, because I have won HOA a half-dozen times at IDPA club matches... and some of those did include Master and Expert class SSP/ESP shooters. It does depend on the COFs. If they are all 6 rounds or less, or exactly 12 rounds, a revo can win. Start mixing in 8, 10, 11, 16 round COFs and thing can change.

But, if you want to see how competitive an 8 shot revo can be in Production, let them in and let the scores answer that question.

[Matt Griffin]

Also, can someone load a minor SS to 8 and see how it fares? Or perhaps just load a G17 down to 8? Or heck, maybe just adjust the SS nationals scores to minor and see how the 8 shots hold up against the 10s.

[Matt Griffin]

There are a lot of great points made here about a 8 shot revolver being competitive in USPSA Production Division. There are good thoughts on both sides of the arguement.

Why not just let the shooters shoot them, and then see what the results are?

A good revolver shooter can crank out rounds pretty quickly (i've shot on the same squad with JM in IDPA a time or two and still marvel at his ability). I also know that, depending on the COFs, a six shot SSR revolver can be competitive in IDPA, because I have won HOA a half-dozen times at IDPA club matches... and some of those did include Master and Expert class SSP/ESP shooters. It does depend on the COFs. If they are all 6 rounds or less, or exactly 12 rounds, a revo can win. Start mixing in 8, 10, 11, 16 round COFs and thing can change.

But, if you want to see how competitive an 8 shot revo can be in Production, let them in and let the scores answer that question.

Yep, exactly. While the trigger isn't necessarily as easy, it's very much the ability to break down the stage that makes the difference. If there's a stage where production shooters are having to reload every 8 rounds then a revolver can compete, though it is still harder. When the production guy gets to empty his mag two or three times in a stage, then the revolver cannot compete; two seconds is two seconds no matter how you cut it. But other than that, sure, the revo isn't that big a drag. Stage 5 at the IPSC Nationals:

1 Griffin, Matt 151 U Revolver 52 0 8.52 6.1033 55.0000 100.00%

OPEN:

19 Mondaca, Miguel 256 U Open 53 0 8.58 6.1772 46.7493 85.00%

20 Drummond, William 111 U Open 52 0 8.56 6.0748 45.9744 83.59%

Standard:

4 Gotamco, Jon 146 U Standard 50 0 8.05 6.2112 47.5729 86.50%

5 Martin, Wilfredo 231 U Standard 54 0 8.87 6.0879 46.6285 84.78%

Production:

1 Grauffel, Eric 149 U Production 53 0 8.63 6.1414 55.0000 100.00%

2 Luna, Sal 214 U Production 51 0 8.35 6.1078 54.6991 99.45%

3 Garcia, Frank 136 U Production 53 0 8.76 6.0502 54.1832 98.51%

Classic (Single Stack):

1 Puente, Ted 307 U Classic 52 0 8.21 6.3337 55.0000 100.00%

2 Jarrett, Todd 175 U Classic 50 0 8.20 6.0976 52.9498 96.27%

Now I shot that stage about as well as I can shoot a stage, and it allowed a good chunk of time for the reload as you were coming in on either side target. The point is that the shooting isn't the problem, it's the other bits, and two extra rounds is a HUGE other bit. You can also cut it the other way, start including 12 round positions instead of 8, and the revolver can start to claw back the advantage. You'll still lose time on the reload, but maybe have that sort of match and only revolvers get to be Major?

It's also important to note that since it was an 11-round stage I was able to be quite a bit more aggressive than if it were a 12 round stage. If I were having to shoot one-for-one I could never have kept up with a semiauto shooter, I'd estimate that changes speed by 25% or more on steel or other difficult shots.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Matt Griffin

[wheelie]

Change the stages to 6 round neutral and everyone can play.

(getting blue in the face from saying this now)

This is the answer if 6 shot guns are going to have a sorta equal chance and also the answer if you want people who shoot 6 shot guns to show up at matches. 6 shot revolvers, 8 shot revolvers and 8 shot bottom feeders can all play happily in the 6 round neutral sandbox.

If you're looking for a test of shooting skills there it is. If you're looking for a test of who bought the gun that holds more bullets then just keep on keeping on.

[in625shooter]

Change the stages to 6 round neutral and everyone can play.

(getting blue in the face from saying this now)

This is the answer if 6 shot guns are going to have a sorta equal chance and also the answer if you want people who shoot 6 shot guns to show up at matches. 6 shot revolvers, 8 shot revolvers and 8 shot bottom feeders can all play happily in the 6 round neutral sandbox.

If you're looking for a test of shooting skills there it is. If you're looking for a test of who bought the gun that holds more bullets then just keep on keeping on.

The IPSC club I shoot in has a ot of field courses (like 5 of 6 stages) I shoot my 625 a lot and it's sort of funny all the polymer kids or tactical Johnnies as I call them are sort of looking at me as I'm out dated. ( I get a laugh out of some of them dressed up in the 511 range pants looking all Blackwaterish because, as I stated before I am a lead Firearms and tactics instructor on the Fed side so I'm all tactic'd out and shoot for fun on the weekends to relax) I joked (half sarcastic but half serious) that "On this stage everyone loads 6 right"

A couple times the polymer kids thought the only 6 rounds I said was a real thing and you should have saw their face and heard the immediate complaining. You just had to be there. It was pretty funny.

To each their own but sometimes I think folks count too much on capacity and not enough on marksmanship and the art of being able to perform the smooth operation of their firearm. Smooth is fast!

Edited February 22, 2013 by in625shooter

[Luv2rideWV]

A D-class Single Stack shooter probably shouldn't chime in here, but I really like revolvers more, and some natural disasters in 2012 cancelled matches and prevented me from being a D-class revolver shooter, too. So, I'll be proud of that revolver qualification when I get it.

Anyway, it is true the eight shot revovler - ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL - will not be competitive with a magazine fed pistol holding more rounds. However, according to the rules of the sport, Production is where it goes. Life ain't fair.

Would giving the 7 and 8 shot revolvers a home of their own help or hurt the sport? Do we need divisions to accomodate all types of handguns, or is it enough we have a sport with a handful of classes that allow us all to come out and race? Would the quality of competition be worse for having more classes with fewer people in them? Would the revolver division be killed off by the creation of a new revolver division for higher capacity guns?

I'm a stick in the mud pessimist, so I would advocate leaving the divisions alone. However, I really would like to have one of those 627's.

[Bubber]

The 8 shot Revovler IS COMPETITVE IN PRODUCTION, The shooter of the 8 shot just has to be better with the Revo than the guy with the Auto.

[Carmoney]

The 8 shot Revovler IS COMPETITVE IN PRODUCTION, The shooter of the 8 shot just has to be better with the Revo than the guy with the Auto.

Yes......but if the revolver shooter wants a chance to actually win, he's gonna need to be a LOT better than the guys with the autos, because of the built-in equipment disadvantages.

[Henry625]

This argument has been raging for many years, every time I raise this issue at a match when I am shooting my revolver, I am always told; "remember, you are only competing against the other revolver shooters"........"WHAT? Oh hell no, I'm competing against everybody!"

I haven't shot my R-8 in Production, but I have shot it in Open (it has a C-more on it). The results are really not that bad, it's all about speed at that point, your "on target time" has to be minimal and your reloads had better drop in. I have felt competitive with it only in the sense that I was comparing myself to local talent of the same classification in other divisions.

Honestly, my on target performance is better with the revolver than my autos, the revolver just hangs out there and at minor P/F, the muzzle just lays there, resulting in more "A" zone hits. The problem arises when I get too fast and have to eat a standing still reload to pick up a miss on a popper or something like that.

For me, if you want to bring revolver division up the an equal plane, you have to do one of two things, allow increased capacity in the revolver or reduce the number of rounds fired from each shooting position. Trying to make the courses competitive for the Major 9 Open guys with their 28- 30 round mags is a detriment to the Revolver division and even the Single Stack guys.

[lcs]

Even if you limited TGO to 8 rounds in a Production auto, TGO would win against Jerry shooting 8 shot revo in Production

Shoot the same match with both guns and the timer does not lie

[Henry625]

Agreed, but as it stands now, allowing only 6 shots when most all courses of fire, classifiers not withstanding, have 8 shots to be performed from each shooting position is just frustrating to put it politely.

[cas]

I would also like to remind you guys... you "competitive guys", and guys that shoot the larger matches are the minority in the sport. You need to keep that in mind when you set about to change things.

[Dragon11]

Agreed, but as it stands now, allowing only 6 shots when most all courses of fire, classifiers not withstanding, have 8 shots to be performed from each shooting position is just frustrating to put it politely.

I'm a firm believer to each his own. But for me, I think the 6 shots in the courses of fire of 8 is it what makes it fun. I like the challenge. However, a friend, and I can't remember who else has already posted the idea, has said that if they could change the target arrays to 6 rounds instead of 8, I do think that would help at least for the revolver debate.

[Carmoney]

Agreed, but as it stands now, allowing only 6 shots when most all courses of fire, classifiers not withstanding, have 8 shots to be performed from each shooting position is just frustrating to put it politely.

OK, regardless of any revolver-related issues, having USPSA matches with nothing but 8-shot arrays is piss-poor stage design.

We need to insist on better stages design from our matches. (And of course, that means we need to be there when the stages are designed and built.)

Edited March 11, 2013 by Carmoney

[Carmoney]

I would also like to remind you guys... you "competitive guys", and guys that shoot the larger matches are the minority in the sport. You need to keep that in mind when you set about to change things.

I sorta understand what you are saying, cas, but on the other hand--this is a competitive sport! It's not scuba-diving, mountain climbing, or kite flying. We are in this game to compete, to improve, and to win (at some level or another). I don't particularly like the classification system in USPSA, but I accept that it is a way for lower-level shooters to identify their competition and set goals.

I understand that not everybody is a top-level shooter. And I understand that some are never going to be top-level, no matter how hard they try. But I don't think I would understand trying to tailor the rules of our competitive sport to the club-level shooters who just are in it to diddle around with no real investment of effort, the guys we all know who just show up at matches to talk with their buddies and mess around. Not that there's anything wrong with "just shooting for fun," but I don't think we should build our rulebook around that mentality.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Carmoney

[Bubber]

I would also like to remind you guys... you "competitive guys", and guys that shoot the larger matches are the minority in the sport. You need to keep that in mind when you set about to change things.

I sorta understand what you are saying, cas, but on the other hand--this is a competitive sport! It's not scuba-diving, mountain climbing, or kite flying. We are in this game to compete, to improve, and to win (at some level or another). I don't particularly like the classification system in USPSA, but I accept that it is a way for lower-level shooters to identify their competition and set goals.

I understand that not everybody is a top-level shooter. And I understand that some are never going to be top-level, no matter how hard they try. But I don't think I would understand trying to tailor the rules of our competitive sport to the club-level shooters who just are in it to diddle around with no real investment of effort, the guys we all know who just show up at matches to talk with their buddies and mess around. Not that there's anything wrong with "just shooting for fun," but I don't think we should build our rulebook around that mentality.

cas, the effort put forth, is to bring in more revo shooters to our ranks. At the local matches there are usually 1 to 3 Revo shooters, if that. Not only is the design to get more particpation at the "Big" matches but at the local levels also. For there is where the division must grow. Oh Yea +1 on what Carmoney wrote later, Roger D. Davis

[wheelie]

I would also like to remind you guys... you "competitive guys", and guys that shoot the larger matches are the minority in the sport. You need to keep that in mind when you set about to change things.

I sorta understand what you are saying, cas, but on the other hand--this is a competitive sport! It's not scuba-diving, mountain climbing, or kite flying. We are in this game to compete, to improve, and to win (at some level or another). I don't particularly like the classification system in USPSA, but I accept that it is a way for lower-level shooters to identify their competition and set goals.

I understand that not everybody is a top-level shooter. And I understand that some are never going to be top-level, no matter how hard they try. But I don't think I would understand trying to tailor the rules of our competitive sport to the club-level shooters who just are in it to diddle around with no real investment of effort, the guys we all know who just show up at matches to talk with their buddies and mess around. Not that there's anything wrong with "just shooting for fun," but I don't think we should build our rulebook around that mentality.

cas, the effort put forth, is to bring in more revo shooters to our ranks. At the local matches there are usually 1 to 3 Revo shooters, if that. Not only is the design to get more particpation at the "Big" matches but at the local levels also. For there is where the division must grow. Oh Yea +1 on what Carmoney wrote later, Roger D. Davis

These three posts pretty much define the issue. This is not just about guns or how many rounds they hold. Its about whether you want to grow participation. The only way to grow participation is to make the sport more inclusive, to make it more fun and more attractive to as many people as possible.

There is a balance to be struck between the majority of participants who provide the opportunity for the dominant shooters to win and those dominant shooters. The way you get the balance is by making adjustments that encourage more participants generally while not discouraging the "serious" shooters. To make a distinction between those groups and placing higher value on one is dangerous. The sport has to have both groups participating. For someone to win in a meaningful way requires that there are a significant number of competitiors involved in the contest. You need a lot of "losers" to have one "winner".

Consider a redefining of groups into one called "participants". There has to be an entry level, the elite and lots of room in between. Room for everyone without taking anything away for others. You've got to give new participants a reason to buy into the sport. High bars to leap over and more flaming hoops to jump through won't get it done.

Right now 6 shot guns are at a significant disadvantage, not becuase the shooters are less good but purely because of a tilted playing field. Level the field and there will be more revolver shooters and a net gain of particpants in the sport with other gun types.

Edited March 12, 2013 by wheelie

[Carmoney]

You've got to give new participants a reason to buy into the sport. High bars to leap over and more flaming hoops to jump through won't get it done.

Right now 6 shot guns are at a significant disadvantage, not becuase the shooters are less good but purely because of a tilted playing field. Level the field and there will be more revolver shooters and a net gain of particpants in the sport with other gun types.

Wheelie, I think your reference to high bars and flaming hoops is exactly on point. Because that's exactly what it feels like to shoot IPSC/USPSA with a 6-shot revolver, for most shooters. It's really difficult, and except to the top level shooters and a few hardy masochists down through the ranks, it's not very fun.

You correctly imply that to generate more interest and participation in Revolver, we need to either change the tilted playing field, or allow the competitors to use different equipment that is perceived to be easier and/or more fun.

The "tiltled playing field" is not going to change--there's no way in hell this game will become 6-round neutral. Everybody understand me? Not ever gonna happen.

So that leaves the only other option, which is to allow 8-round minor to compete in Revolver Division.

I promote this idea to my own personal detriment. I am one of the guys who can jump over the high bars and through the flaming loops with my 625. Despite the fact that 6-major works for me, I'm willing to risk changing the rules for the potential to bring more shooters into the ranks and make the Division healthier overall, knowing full well that if that happens I probably won't win as many plaques and prizes.

[lcs]

You've got to give new participants a reason to buy into the sport. High bars to leap over and more flaming hoops to jump through won't get it done.

Right now 6 shot guns are at a significant disadvantage, not becuase the shooters are less good but purely because of a tilted playing field. Level the field and there will be more revolver shooters and a net gain of particpants in the sport with other gun types.

Wheelie, I think your reference to high bars and flaming hoops is exactly on point. Because that's exactly what it feels like to shoot IPSC/USPSA with a 6-shot revolver, for most shooters. It's really difficult, and except to the top level shooters and a few hardy masochists down through the ranks, it's not very fun.

You correctly imply that to generate more interest and participation in Revolver, we need to either change the tilted playing field, or allow the competitors to use different equipment that is perceived to be easier and/or more fun.

The "tiltled playing field" is not going to change--there's no way in hell this game will become 6-round neutral. Everybody understand me? Not ever gonna happen.

So that leaves the only other option, which is to allow 8-round minor to compete in Revolver Division.

I promote this idea to my own personal detriment. I am one of the guys who can jump over the high bars and through the flaming loops with my 625. Despite the fact that 6-major works for me, I'm willing to risk changing the rules for the potential to bring more shooters into the ranks and make the Division healthier overall, knowing full well that if that happens I probably won't win as many plaques and prizes.

I would really like to shoot revolver and you nailed the reason why a lot of folks don't. It is difficult and not fun! (For a lot of us). Not because revolver is hard to shoot or not fun, but shooting 8 shot COFs with a 6 shot is extremely difficult and not fun.

Do I have a vested interest, Sort of, I just went out and bought an 8 shot. I for one, hope the BOD is listening. Seriously, it could take forever. Look how long it took to allow 6 inch Sight Trackers in Limited (4 years ?)

I question your comment " knowing full well that if that happens I probably won't win as many plaques and prizes.". Why?

[pskys2]

You've got to give new participants a reason to buy into the sport. High bars to leap over and more flaming hoops to jump through won't get it done.

Right now 6 shot guns are at a significant disadvantage, not becuase the shooters are less good but purely because of a tilted playing field. Level the field and there will be more revolver shooters and a net gain of particpants in the sport with other gun types.

Wheelie, I think your reference to high bars and flaming hoops is exactly on point. Because that's exactly what it feels like to shoot IPSC/USPSA with a 6-shot revolver, for most shooters. It's really difficult, and except to the top level shooters and a few hardy masochists down through the ranks, it's not very fun.

You correctly imply that to generate more interest and participation in Revolver, we need to either change the tilted playing field, or allow the competitors to use different equipment that is perceived to be easier and/or more fun.

The "tiltled playing field" is not going to change--there's no way in hell this game will become 6-round neutral. Everybody understand me? Not ever gonna happen.

So that leaves the only other option, which is to allow 8-round minor to compete in Revolver Division.

I promote this idea to my own personal detriment. I am one of the guys who can jump over the high bars and through the flaming loops with my 625. Despite the fact that 6-major works for me, I'm willing to risk changing the rules for the potential to bring more shooters into the ranks and make the Division healthier overall, knowing full well that if that happens I probably won't win as many plaques and prizes.

I would really like to shoot revolver and you nailed the reason why a lot of folks don't. It is difficult and not fun! (For a lot of us). Not because revolver is hard to shoot or not fun, but shooting 8 shot COFs with a 6 shot is extremely difficult and not fun.

Do I have a vested interest, Sort of, I just went out and bought an 8 shot. I for one, hope the BOD is listening. Seriously, it could take forever. Look how long it took to allow 6 inch Sight Trackers in Limited (4 years ?)

I question your comment " knowing full well that if that happens I probably won't win as many plaques and prizes.". Why?

Yea Mike?

Though the 6 shot issue isn't always that bad. This weekend there were several times where an 8 shot array was used, but with good course design I was able to find other shots to pick from the spot and not cost much more time, usually saving a reload further down the line. That's part of the challenge, coming up with a plan to adapt. Picking which is best a longer or harder shot or an extra reload with an easier shot. After shooting Revo for a while most other courses with other platforms almost seem like shooting just classifiers. Fun, tests of skill but nothing to keep my mind busy.

[Carmoney]

I'm pretty good at shooting USPSA with my 625. I have stacks of plaques and a bunch of prize guns to show for it.

If we see a nice increase in participation in Revolver Division, I will be competing against more shooters, more of whom will presumably be capable of beating me out of those plaques and prizes.

That would be excellent for the division, and great for the game.....although not necessarily what would benefit me personally. That was my point.