Flexmoney Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Point shooting is like shooting Minor. It sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Point shooting is like shooting Minor. It sucks. Bleh! Minor is a challenge; point shooting is a hindrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fried Chicken Blowout Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 No way is it worth point shooting. Thats basically what a double tap is and it does not work past just a couple yards. I'm learning that you can go way slower and get better scores but blasting away as fast as you can is a hard issue to break. Controlled aimed shots are the only way to roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koppi Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I love this topic! I was lucky enough to shoot with Mr. Angus Hobdel a long time ago at the FL Open. We where talking about shooting the really close targets--he said to me "you have to shoot all A's on targets that are close or your giving away your match" it takes just a micro-second to make it an A by looking at your sights. I have to admit that sometimes I forget that advise--it bites back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I love this topic! I was lucky enough to shoot with Mr. Angus Hobdel a long time ago at the FL Open. We where talking about shooting the really close targets--he said to me "you have to shoot all A's on targets that are close or your giving away your match" it takes just a micro-second to make it an A by looking at your sights. I have to admit that sometimes I forget that advise--it bites back! Did anyone else read that in Angus' accent? That's actually a really good point, about the close targets-- and it adds a new perspective on the conversation. I'll bet Flex cringes at the notion of "Acceptable Hits" on any target-- especially those that are free 10-pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I had another GM who wears a CZ shirt tell me the same thing about a year and a half ago.. "Those are easy points. Get them. All." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Stevie Wonder is one of the worlds best performers, but I have heard he's not a good shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Did anyone else read that in Angus' accent? LOL... I always read in the persons voice. Weird? I'll bet Flex cringes at the notion of "Acceptable Hits" on any target-- especially those that are free 10-pointers. I do. The close ones are even more important to get Alphas on than the far targets. (they are easier/faster Alphas...better hit factor math to get the Alphas up close) Our ego sure does make us want to burn through a close array at "look cool" speed. That is a poor mindset that sucks us all in. (I think I will call that the Siren's Song). A better mindset is to visually call the Alpha....always. Now, to practice what I preach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpa5oh Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Dave Sevigny in Combat Handgunner this (or last) month said that up close he hardly uses his sights. The definition of "hardly" is open for debate I guess. I won't do it (point-shoot) because I'm a newer shooter and I think it'll stunt my development if I'm practicing/competing locally shooting sloppy...I'm trying to develop the ability to shoot accurately, fast. And it seems to me that if you're using your sights you're always getting instant feedback on your index/presentation, so by using the sights, you're actually training your ability to point shoot...as opposed to point shooting and training neither the ability to see quickly or point shoot accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 And it seems to me that if you're using your sights you're always getting instant feedback on your index/presentation, so by using the sights, you're actually training your ability to point shoot...as opposed to point shooting and training neither the ability to see quickly or point shoot accurately. Great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Point shooting or staying on the sights both "Work" and take the same amount of time to perform. Point shooting tricks you into thinking that its faster when in fact you are "Hoping" that your hits are on target because you really don't know. Staying on your sights allows you to call your shots and KNOW what your hits are. You can choose to KNOW what your hits are or HOPE that you have hits. Choose wisely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I'm digging all this advice, my thanks to the experienced shooters. The general approach I've taken has been to focus on the hits and not the time, but I must admit I've yet to notice a target without two As and reshot it. It's like my mind goes blank and I just shoot (I don't know if this is a good or bad thing?), I'm getting mostly As, but I know I'm not calling my shots. Can someone explain what that means? Is it just knowing the shots were good, or having a picture in your head of where the holes are? Does your focus jump from the sights to the target after the shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 And, hoping is slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I'm getting mostly As, but I know I'm not calling my shots. Can someone explain what that means? Is it just knowing the shots were good, or having a picture in your head of where the holes are? Does your focus jump from the sights to the target after the shot? there are a number of topics here on calling your shot. You'd be best served looking into them. But, no...you aren't looking at the target for holes. That is NOT what calling the shot is. Calling the shot is reading the feedback (sights) in recoil so that you will know where the bullet will strike the target...even before the bullet gets there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I'm getting mostly As, but I know I'm not calling my shots. Can someone explain what that means? Is it just knowing the shots were good, or having a picture in your head of where the holes are? Does your focus jump from the sights to the target after the shot? there are a number of topics here on calling your shot. You'd be best served looking into them. But, no...you aren't looking at the target for holes. That is NOT what calling the shot is. Calling the shot is reading the feedback (sights) in recoil so that you will know where the bullet will strike the target...even before the bullet gets there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) i guess nobody told Taran "point shooting doesnt work" Edited December 20, 2012 by juan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Long Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Go out and try it. I tried it on close targets, and i'm better off aiming. I still practice my natural point of aim, but i can't get A's all the time. If the target is close enough to poke with the barrel, then i'd point shoot. Maybe someday i will gain enough skill to be able to point shoot out to a few yards, but today is not the day. Not for this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 My carry is a Lightweight Colt Officer in 45. Had 3 different 'smiths install a front sight on it but it just refused to stay on. Turned to point shooting and found I was 2 Alpha - 1 Charlie for 3 shots in various mix to 7 yards or less. 2 out of 3 A's is just fine for carry accuracy / distance. I use the same method in USPSA competition but can't hit squat past 25' so for me it has limits. Must have something to do with 66 year old eyes, hands, feet, focus, etc. Methinks a couple A's on target fast has advantages. Anyway it feels fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Methinks a couple A's on target fast has advantages. Anyway it feels fast. That there is the common misconception, I think... Using the sights isn't slow. If folks slow down to use the sights, they are doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 You may have a point, flex. However, at 66 with a radically diminished skill set lining up sights is just another task on a list of to do before they shoot back. I read somewhere that the first to make a loud BANG noise tends to make the other guy flinch, duck, run or something that gets him off focus. 3 shots, 4 seconds, 15 feet will get it done. If I take the time to extend an arm and line up two things I can't see very well I'm prolly not gonna see the next sunrise. So I'll stay with two hands, elbows locked in, aim the body and make as much noise in a good direction as I can muster. However, this discussion is relative to competition not survival. In that context form and execution should, by all accounts, prevail and an old sailor can only stand and marvel at the goings on. Focus? Hell, I lost that when I stopped flying off aircraft carriers in Viet Nam. Not much else has caught my attention since. See ya on the other side of the end of the world. (^-^). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I saw what I needed to see and saw the sight on every shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Just for fun I point shot this stage Kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I also see my sights but no time is made for correction if the call is bad a make up shot is going down range. this to me is point shooting, and many a high level shooter have done this or you would never hear a make up shot on close fast tgts, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 If point shooting is defined as target focus instead of gun/sight focus I don't do it. I try to always transition my eyes to the gun to shoot. I don't have to align the sights much at 7' but I still see the gun with the target in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I also see my sights but no time is made for correction if the call is bad a make up shot is going down range. this to me is point shooting, and many a high level shooter have done this or you would never hear a make up shot on close fast tgts, I shot at a relaxed pace and tried to call all my shots today; I could definitely call those more than 2-3" off at ten yards; is bullseye shooting a useful way to practice calling shots, or should it be faster? Juan, if I understand your advice, you say rip off another shot automatically when I know I've shot a bad one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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