Armchair Commandos

[rhino]

I think that such changes are both illogical and insulting to the history of our sport.

There's not a chance in the world I would support any such changes to make USPSA/IPSC less threatening to the sheep and limp-wristed, pseudo-liberal handwringers.

In fact, I encourage and support courses of fire based on scenarios and I won't design a stage that uses paper targets other than the IPSC metric targets.

Keeping a link to the practical/defensive origins of this game has nothing to do with "mall ninjas" or other poseurs and whether or not they choose to participate. And even if it did, if they pay their money, obey the rules, and they're safe on the range, they have as much right as anyone else to participate.

I shoot IPSC and other sports because I already own guns for other reasons and it's a fun way to improve my shooting skills. I do not own guns so that I can play games. The horse is supposed to go in front of the cart.

[dirtypool40]

Here Here.

(with a nod to doing what you have to in other countries to survive).

[Ron Ankeny]

I shoot IPSC and other sports because I already own guns for other reasons and it's a fun way to improve my shooting skills.

Me too. In fact, I bought my Open blaster for concealed carry but it crosses over into the "games" very nicely.

[geezer-lock]

This is déjà vu all over again. Seems like in the ‘80’s when everybody wanted to be on the teevee, camo was banned (along with rude t-shirts) and the plan was to use the NRA-D1 tombstone target and omit any reference to “head or body” shots. Didn’t do much for the game then, probably won’t do much for the game now.

Be safe, have fun,

geezer

[Flexmoney]

Rhino,

Well said.

[SiG Lady]

I shoot IPSC and other sports because I already own guns for other reasons...

My original interest in shooting was personal defense and that's when I took the required course and bought a gun, got my CHL, etc. However, in meeting some of the neat folks who shot at the range where I practiced, I quickly got involved in leagues and play. But I recall that it all started with defense issues..... However, camo never entered the picture.

[AikiDale]

I shoot IPSC and other sports because I already own guns for other reasons and it's a fun way to improve my shooting skills.

However, we should recognize the marketing possibilities, to enhance the popularity of our sport and advertise as the United States Patriot Shooting Association

[rhino]

AikiDale cuts to the core of the issue again!

[Run n Gun]

...United States Patriot Shooting Association

Your going to start shooting Patriots!? Be careful, many of us shoot back!

Ed

[AikiDale]

Hmmm....... That could be a problem. I never shot Practical's before so I missed that.

I would never shoot a Patriot, unless he needed killin' of course........

[AikiDale]

Two things:

1. I got my very first pair of tactical black 5.11 tactical pants in the mail today and I like 'em!

2. This has been the longest rant in Hate Forum history. The Toilet Paper Rant only had 72 posts to take second place.....

[SiG Lady]

Wow... you might be right. Make that 86 on this one.

Hard to beat the content of the infamous TP thread, though...

That was one of those you-had-to-have-been-there threads.

[Dalmas]

In fact, I encourage and support courses of fire based on scenarios and I won't design a stage that uses paper targets other than the IPSC metric targets.

I shoot IPSC and other sports because I already own guns for other reasons and it's a fun way to improve my shooting skills. I do not own guns so that I can play games. The horse is supposed to go in front of the cart.

Rhino,

We do use scenarios in our stage design, hard would it be otherwise to design good stages, but we use more generic names and targets, No shooting value lost in that.

In Scandinavia (probably all of europe) there is no such thing as armed personal defense, If somebody breaks into my home and I shoot him/her I'll go to jail without passing go, I'll even get a stronger sentence because as a licensed sports shooter I should know how dangerous guns are (politicians duh) I'm not allowed to have a loaded weapon accessible at home, I can keep my guns / ammo at home in a safe but not loaded...

Personally the above is very hard because when I lived in the States I received a CCL after witnessing in a trial and carried 24/7.

But over here it's a sport, and nothing but a sport. And if we don't think about how we project our sport, we'll soon not have a sport.

[rhino]

Personally the above is very hard because when I lived in the States I received a CCL after witnessing in a trial and carried 24/7.

So, it sounds like it's time to move back here?

But over here it's a sport, and nothing but a sport. And if we don't think about how we project our sport, we'll soon not have a sport.

See, that's the fundamental problem and why your gun ownership is eventually doomed to nothingness. When you base the justification of gun ownership on sports and games, there is no way to make even the weakest argument to the average voting sheep that ownership of guns is somehow more important than the illusion of "public safety" among the collective.

If you can't assert that gun ownership is an inherent human right that is not at the whim of others, including the government, it's just a matter of time before you don't have guns.

I realize the reality that most of the world faces... it's gone too far and there isn't a remedy I can see short of "resetting" your system. I just hope we few Americans left in America can stop our own system's descent in that direction.

[chp5]

Edited

[chp5]

But over here it's a sport, and nothing but a sport. And if we don't think about how we project our sport, we'll soon not have a sport.

See, that's the fundamental problem and why your gun ownership is eventually doomed to nothingness. When you base the justification of gun ownership on sports and games, there is no way to make even the weakest argument to the average voting sheep that ownership of guns is somehow more important than the illusion of "public safety" among the collective.

If you can't assert that gun ownership is an inherent human right that is not at the whim of others, including the government, it's just a matter of time before you don't have guns.

I realize the reality that most of the world faces... it's gone too far and there isn't a remedy I can see short of "resetting" your system. I just hope we few Americans left in America can stop our own system's descent in that direction.

Well said Rhino! The difference in our country as compared to others lies is the Second Amendment. The basis for the Second Amendment is NOT sport or hunting - but the right of the individual to ultimately protect himself/herself - and even oppose the government with force.

While this sounds radical, remember that our Founding Fathers were revolutionaries who won our freedom from an oppressive government through force. They did not believe in an all-powerful central government like we have today (consolidation of power in the Federal government was started by and was the goal of Lincoln).

While I really don't care about whether a stage is scenario-based or the shape of the targets, I completely agree with your political statements.

[A33435]

" The basis for the Second Amendment is NOT sport or hunting - but the right of the individual to ultimately protect himself/herself - and even oppose the government with force. "

After reading this thread i think the basis for the right of the individual to ultimately protect himself/herself is also the basis for the huge contamination in your country of all that what you call Armchair Commandos.

It is clear not everyone is capable to manage the rights that come with this Second Amendment.

Greetings from the Netherlands

Adrie

[Jim Norman]

In Scandinavia (probably all of europe) there is no such thing as armed personal defense, If somebody breaks into my home and I shoot him/her I'll go to jail without passing go, I'll even get a stronger sentence because as a licensed sports shooter I should know how dangerous guns are (politicians duh) I'm not allowed to have a loaded weapon accessible at home, I can keep my guns / ammo at home in a safe but not loaded...

Personally the above is very hard because when I lived in the States I received a CCL after witnessing in a trial and carried 24/7.

But over here it's a sport, and nothing but a sport. And if we don't think about how we project our sport, we'll soon not have a sport.

Which is why we need to continuously keep in the forefront the fact that this is a RIGHT and the sport aspect is secondary to the RIGHT.

Even the Bible says that it is ok to defend one's self and family, In fact there is an argument that not defending yourself is an afront to the creator since life is his gift to us.

Jim Norman

[rhino]

After reading this thread i think the basis for the right of the individual to ultimately protect himself/herself is also the basis for the huge contamination in your country of all that what you call Armchair Commandos.

Armchair Commandos may be a source of amusement, but a vast majority of them are no threat to anyone else (unless someone tries to harm them or their families).

It is clear not everyone is capable to manage the rights that come with this Second Amendment.

Well, it's clear because not everyone is capable of behaving rationally in any society. That provides absolutely no reason to violate the rights of those who do NOT harm others just because the sheep wish to have the illusion of a blanket of "safety" provided by their rulers.

[Flexmoney]

Just a quick administrator note to remind everybody to keep the discussion of the "hate rant" on topic. We don't need to delve into politics.

[xsrdx]

I do not own guns so that I can play games.

Precisely.

While it's certainly entertaining to poke fun at the camo sporting, SKS toting, tactibilly non-hacker, there is little merit in the notion that USPSA/IPSC is "just a game", like ping pong, or cricket. It's roots are combative in nature, and no amount of window dressing or PC newspeak is going to change the fact that it requires skill with tools generally considered "weapons".

It may be "just a game", and it may not be "tactically sound", but my money's on the A/M/GM to win the simunition shootout with the average LEO/Military non-competitor operator.

In fact, a large number of no kidding operators seek training from USPSA gamers.

In Scandinavia (probably all of europe) there is no such thing as armed personal defense,

Armed personal defense is a basic human right. Without that core value, you are entirely subject to the whim of whomever happens to be in power at the moment.

Shooting sports have no appeal to socialists.

End of political discussion. Great thread.

[chp5]

It is clear not everyone is capable to manage the rights that come with this Second Amendment.

I agree. There are also people in the US that abuse other fundamental rights guaranteed by our nation such as the freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.

IMO, the abuse of fundamental rights by certain people IS NOT A BASIS to remove the fundamental rights for other citizens.

Many European and other socialistic nations either do not understand this concept or understand it and choose to reject it. Either way, it's a paternalist attitude that I strongly oppose.

Every time I travel outside the US I feel fortunate to be a US citizen. I understand why many foreigners risk everything they have in order to leave their country and come to the US. If you disagree with US rights/politics, you have choices as well.

Take care.

BTW - I don't like armchair commandos either!

[Flexmoney]

OK...looking at the time stamps, you guys were likely typing when my post came up...and didn't get a chane to read it...

For the sake of us all remaining friends, I am going to close this thread. Usually I'll wait until a thread turns bad. I'm getting the jump on this one. It seems apparent that the "Armchair Commando" rant is turning into political talk.