Old eyes are getting on my nerves

[lablover]

Just getting started in 3 gun but have been shooting most of my life. 50 is right around the corner and I cant see my sights anymore on my pistol. Getting started in 3 gun and this brings up problems. I've tried different scripts etc and nothing is real comfortable. A buddy of mine let me try his Leupold Delta Point on his handgun and I thought "awesome, I don't need my readers or specs or anything" Also had someone tell me for 3 gun it would be very difficult to get any speed out of shooting a dot on my pistol because I would have to comp the pistol so the dot was easier to get back on and I would loose the dot most of the time.

I wanted to shoot TAc Ops but if I decide to do a dot I have to shoot open.

Can anyone with the same eye issues and shooting 3 gun with a dot give me some advice. Or, anyone shooting and needing speed give advice? To say this is frustrating is a understatement! Punching paper or small steel at any distance is getting close to being impossible.

Without glasses, I can see targets pretty close but the sights are a blurry mess. With correction, the sights are clear as can be and the target a blurry mess.

Thanks

Edited November 18, 2012 by lablover

[Sarge]

Don't shoot 3 gun but I am over 50 and can't see my sights either. I took the easy way out and bought an Open gun. Barring going to full out Open division you will have to make some kind of compromise on glasses. I did not like what glasses offered me either but I could have made it work had I not been able to afford plan A.

Did your eye doc try to set you up with two different lenses? Some have had great success with that. Strong eye focused on sights, weak eye focused on targets. It messes with your head and you have to put them on early to let your eyes/brain adjust but it works.

[hacksaw556]

I am in the same boat as you, but if anything my eyes are worse...I am saddled with bi-focals, and like you, it seems to be a choice between seeing the targets clearly, or seeing my sights when using pistol.. My distance lenses work very well on my rifle scope but the close range stuff is turning out to be very challenging. I will be watching this thread with great interest.

[lablover]

My Eye guy told me I can't have my cake and eat it too My distant vision is great. It's the vision from my chest to about 8 inches in front of my extended arm. He said he could make some glasses for me that had the bifocal/corrective lens on the top of the lens instead of the bottom but that made me crazy. I could nail a 8" plate all day long with this setup at 25+ yards but if the target had any detail or I had to shoot a hostage target..No go. I don't care about cost. I just want to continue to shoot. I doubt I will ever attend any big matches so local has no issues with a dot. But there's that what if I do go to a big match. I'll be playing against the big boys....Not sure hoe much fun that would be?

[redial]

Not a 3 gunner but an over - 50, NRA High Master service rifle shooter. I've spent more on lenses than on barrels in the last few years, so I understand!

My bifocals work wonderfully on dot sights, but nothing else. Now in my various gear bags I have glasses for IPSC iron sights, Bulleye pistol irons, Service Rifle (one for AR, another for M1A) and Match Rifle (aperture sights). All require different scripts! *bad word here*

Your eye guy is right and you'll likely end up with an entire menu of eyewear like me. It's not terribly complicated - you just need to choose where each should focus. There's something called a Hyperfocal distance that's very useful and different for each application. Welcome to the age of "experience and trickery" that triumphs over "youth and exuberance".

Cheers!

Mark

[Hi-Power Jack]

- you need to choose where each should focus. There's something called a Hyperfocal distance that's very useful and different for each application.

I don't shoot 3-gun, but for USPSA, I bought a pair of eyeglasses that are focused

just a few feet past the front sight . That helps my 68 year old eyes

It works for USPSA (For me) since the sights are clear, and the target is clear to

a point - but I've never tried it past 25 yards or with a rifle (further to the front sight).

That would complicate it a bit ... But IMHO you're better off losing a little distance

clarity and concentrating on the furthest focus where you can see the sights

clearly. But, you might (Might not) need two pair, one for handgun and one for

rifle.

You'd have to try it and see what works best for you.

Good luck.

Jack

[lablover]

If the targets were at a fixed point...no problems. Lets hear some guys that have gone to red dots and how that changed your game. I have to say when I tried it I thought it was the answer to all my problems, until I found out about open class....a rookie in open class I guess I could do that LOL

[Steve RA]

I don't really agree about having to have a comp on a gun with a dot as you have the same problem with open sights that you do with the dot on a non-comped gun.

For a # of years I used a pair of glasses with the right eye (dominate) set so I could see the front sight clearly and the left eye for distance. As mentioned above, works for some, not for others. That worked pretty well, but, as I got older I found a really sharp optometrist who managed to come up with a solution so that I can have both eyes for distance. The front sight - at full arm extension - is just well defined at the rear edge of the start of clear/sharper vision.

If you think the dot sight helps, go for it.

[Reshoot]

I am another one of those who built an open gun (USPSA), due to my vision. It was the only option left.

I went through several different lens, and hundreds of dollars, but none of them really worked. My doctor ran out of ideas, and I built my open gun in July.

Best of luck!

[P.E. Kelley]

If you still want to run Iron Sights on your pistol then try getting away from the young eye movement toward NARROW front sights.

I will be 53 in Feb. and have been on the Rx eyewagon for 5 years. I am still playing with every sight combination I can buy or make.

I get the BIG light bars thinking, but you don't need a narrow front sight to get it…widen the rear notch!

When was the last time you wanted smaller reading print? Like never! So why on Gods green would you want a mini front sight?

Oh you'll here the group tell you "the big front sight covers up the target!" Well, if your pistol is sighted in to have the bullet impact

behind the front sight then yup, that will be the case. Hell, I was one of the better handgun silhouette shooters in the game and I/we ran

front sights of .140" as wider! Shoot-off targets where a DOT in the middle of the front sight, yet we could smack the crap out of them!

Two things…First sight the pistol in for the smallest target you'll likely to face at a match. (6" square @ 25 yards) and sight your

blaster in so you can hold on the lower half and the bullet strikes the near the middle (2" high @ 25)

Now, even with script Rx I cannot see (clearly defined) my front sight…BUT I can see what a front sight produces…LIGHT BARS.

On any target short of that 6" square all I need to see is light bars. Maybe I am full of crap but I prefer my light bars to be about 25% the width of the front sight. Seen as narrow light bars in low light and wider in bright sunlight. In use the narrow light bars have the effect of"turning on" the fiber optic front sight when centered in the rear.

I have NEVER been accused of shooting slow and I am posting my best times ever in steel challenge events, yet with the same sight set up I have created videos displaying accuracy (playing card splitting, candle snuffing etc.)

I know the concept goes against the collective and I fell into the thinking for YEARS but I thrown everything out and started again and this is where I am now…maybe I'll change again in ten.

Good luck mister.

Patrick

[titandriver]

Patrick for the win!! If only I could have stated it so eloquently!!!

[lablover]

Patrick, I like your thinking...I'll experiment a bit and see. One of the guys at the local gun shop suggested something called big dot or HD dots. I may look at that. I will say if I could lengthen my arm a few inches I would not need glasses.

[P.E. Kelley]

Big dots generally are associated with Express or "V" notch rear sights. I have been hot and cold on that set up, but you might like them.

Right now my combinations are Warren black target rear with a .130" notch and a Dawson .125" fiber front.

The other, I just installed to play with is the Pro Sight adjustable .140" rear and .125" front. It has a BIG fiber in the front.

http://www.tacticalshooting.com/pro-sights-store

Edited November 18, 2012 by P.E. Kelley

[P.E. Kelley]

Patrick for the win!! If only I could have stated it so eloquently!!!

Thank you mister…fellow "man of experience"

[Youngeyes]

I have to throw my 2 pesos in here. Please check out multi-focal contact lenses. They may not give perfect 16" closeup, but they're hell on fire for distance and sight picture. I fit them a lot for shooters, and have had very good success with them. They work best with both eyes open type shooting. YMMV

Edited November 18, 2012 by Youngeyes

[lablover]

I have to throw my 2 pesos in here. Please check out multi-focal contact lenses. They may not give perfect 16" closeup, but they're hell on fire for distance and sight picture. I fit them a lot for shooters, and have had very good success with them. They work best with both eyes open type shooting. YMMV

From what I understand, I would have to use contacts as the platform?

[Youngeyes]

I have to throw my 2 pesos in here. Please check out multi-focal contact lenses. They may not give perfect 16" closeup, but they're hell on fire for distance and sight picture. I fit them a lot for shooters, and have had very good success with them. They work best with both eyes open type shooting. YMMV

From what I understand, I would have to use contacts as the platform?

No. With the right rx and fit, the contacts will do the whole job. Just wear non rx safety glasses as usual.

[Shadowrider]

I pretty much have to run in TO because of my vision now. I used to look at the stage and decide where the most points were and decide to wear my correction inserts or not, if it was a majority with handgun I'd have the insert in my Rudy's, if it were majority rifle I'd run without. What I've done for now, was to have my prescription set for about 3-4 feet. This lets me see my handgun's front sight with SOME clarity and the targets at distance with SOME clarity. Of course this isn't an issue with a scope on the rifle, but with handgun and shotgun it's a compromise. It's working for now, but I know it's a losing battle.

If I shoot heavy irons I approach it the same way that I did when I was just shooting with readers (wear correction or wear none at all). I find that when shooting flashers at distance I just aim where I think they are if there is a lot of handgun and I'm wearing correction. I can't see MGM flashers at all past 300 unless the lighting and background contrast is just right, but I can see the card and hold down from that. Without correction I can see them fine but the front sight is iffy. Getting old sucks!

Edited November 21, 2012 by Shadowrider

[310yuma]

Just another thought, I use Smith wraparound eyeglasses with Rx insert set to focus on the handgun front sight . If you are going to shoot TAc Ops you can use a 1x4 or 1x6 scope and set the scope to focus with your glasses on. Also this will allow you to still see the front sight on you r shotgun

This setup is not perfect but at handgun and shotgun range you will be able to identify your target without any problems and have the scope for longer range rifle targets

Adapt and overcome is part of getting old

[August]

The only thing that need be in focus is the front sight. I have been experimenting with plus-diaptor additions to my regular script and they have made an incredible positive difference in my shooting. I started with a plus 1/4 in the sighting eye and have gone to plus 1/2. I cannot wear either of these for 'normal' use or driving. The only thing they focus is the front sight. But, they do that very well.

I suspect you haven't found the right optician. I strongly recommend Decot -- especially if you can get to Phoenix for a direct consultation. Decot is happy to make you a three lens pair of glasses so you can switch out your shooting eye from plus diopter to base correction lens. They work GREAT!!!

I was surprised to learn that some of the 'Big Boys' use a lot more plus diopter than I've found useful in my situation.

[KentG]

I have to throw my 2 pesos in here. Please check out multi-focal contact lenses. They may not give perfect 16" closeup, but they're hell on fire for distance and sight picture. I fit them a lot for shooters, and have had very good success with them. They work best with both eyes open type shooting. YMMV

I have the AirOptix and use a multifocal in my right eye. I am VERY nearsighted and this has worked well for me. AND I changed my front sight to a wider one. Never thought to open up the back to help.

[lablover]

Looks like the wife and kids are sneaking me a Trijicon RMR for Christmas

[Brian Payne]

I am glad I came upon this post. And once again Mr. Kelley has supplied what I was looking for on this problem.

I am hitting 54 soon, and I do wear corrective lenses but now I am also finding the need for reading glasses.

I shoot 3-gun mainly and I was pretty content using my STI edge with plain black front sight (a large one). I was not having any problem hitting the 5" steel plates at the Ozark's 3-gun and BRM3G, and I was also able to hit the long range pistol steel (70+ yrds) with no trouble. These two matches are known for some harder long range pistol shots. It seems that in an attempt to add difficulty to the pistol portions of these matches the smaller steel targets are becoming the target of choice compared to years ago using the normal IPSC targets with no-shoot or hardcover. I am guessing that this also makes it much cheaper for the matches (no target replacements) and faster for reset. Overall I prefer this type of set up as compared to the more "run-and-gun" style courses of fire.

At the last Ozarks 3-gun my front sight started to loosen up in the dovetail. I would start a stage and make sure it was in the proper position and hope for the best by the end of the stage. It was apparent that it needed replacement. Naturally I thought I would use what everyone thought was the newest and best. A few days later a very nice micro-dot arrived at my door and with a little work it was mounted on my handgun.

At normal ranges on IPSC targets it felt like I was faster and it seemed like I was finding the front sight easier. Then I switched to shooting small steel at distance, and A/C zone steel at 100 yrds. Wow! I couldn't hit crap even though the handgun was sighted in properly. I had a match coming up soon so I spent a large amojnt of time really working on adjusting to this new sight. I really couldn't find an answer except to switch to safety glasses that had built in 1.50 "cheaters" in the top and the bottom of the lense. This allowed me to tilt my head down to clearly see the front handgun sight, but holding my head normal allowed me to shoot through the rifle scope. This worked but not near as well as what I had before.

So per reading Mr. Kelley's above comments I am switching back to the larger plain black sight. I am hoping that this gives me a few more years of shooting in the same division I shoot now. It also allows me to keep an eye on the classifieds for an Open gun that I might want to try in the future. But like my wife says "But if you switch to open won't you need a new handgun AND a different shotgun?". Damn, sometimes I hate being married to someone who really knows guns and the shooting sports. No way to "sneak" a new gun into the gun vault. Never fails "where did that new Glock come from?"

[02Fatboy]

Brian, where did you get the safety glasses with the cheaters on top?

[Isurg]

I'm about to turn 50 and happen to be an ophthalmologist. I have perfect distance vision but need reading glasses for close-up work. I fit myself a contact for my dominant eye so that I can just make the front sight clear. This is called mono vision since you are essentially only using one eye at distance or near. The key is not to make it to strong, so you can just get the sight clear. This will allow minimal decrease in depth perception. It took a few weeks to get accustomed to it, but it is possible with the right motivation. It's now very comfortable and easy to shoot with both eyes open. This can be duplicated by purchasing cheap low-powered readers and popping the left lens out of the frames.