IDPA classifier took over 4 hours for 9 shooters, ugh

[DaveF]

Went to my first IDPA classifier yesterday. It took just over 4 hours to run 9 shooters through. Gawd dang, it just seemed like a long time - maybe 'cause the classifier is kinda boring.

Does that time seem about right? Was I maybe drinking too much Dunkin' Donuts coffee??????

[NicVerAZ]

Come very early in order to be among the firsts in line.

It is a 90-shot classifier, which is usually more than what you shoot in a 4-stage match.

If it is well-organized around 2 bays, it allows running 4 to 10 shooters an hour.

The good part is that you only need to classify once a year. When you feel you progressed, don't be a sand bagger, try to classify for the division above.

But now you should be fine for one full year.

Edited November 4, 2012 by NicVerAZ

[DaveF]

Well, there were two bays. There was about 7 guys in the other bay and they finished about an hour before us.

[Jane]

We normally figure about 20 minutes per shooter.

With 9 shooters, that would have been 180 minutes.

With 2 bays, everyone should have been finished in about an hour and a half.

Things that help -

1. SO has cheat sheet in hand and briefly reminds shooter before each string. (" draw and fire six shots while moving from this line to that line.")

2. Squad pays attention. Each doofus doesn't come to the line and say "what do I do now?"

3. Designate mag loader buddies. The guy shooting shouldn't be wasting everyone's time standing at the line thumbing rounds into his magazine between strings.

4. Everybody tapes.

5. Set up each bay so all three stages are available on each.

6. Run everybody on that bay through stage 1 before running everybody through stage 2.

7. Have one of the better shooters go first so the less skilled can have an idea of not dragging this process out.

8. That means they need to be watching the first guy(s), not sitting in the back of the bay BS-ing and not paying attention.

Print out the classifier course description and put a copy of it in the back of each bay where the guys who are waiting can see it.

4 hours!

[GmanCdp]

Edited November 5, 2012 by GmanCdp

[shootaglock]

From the OPs post, it was 9 shooters in one bay and 7 in the other.

Sounds like you either had an inexperienced group of shooters, an inexperienced SO running things, or a combination of both.

Also, how much talking went on? Socializing can slow things down.

The more you shoot the classifier, the faster you will get through it.

[freeidaho]

About 26 minutes per shooter. A little slow.

kr

[jmorris]

While I haven't shot one in years, IIRC it took about 15 minif I only had 3 mags.

[DaveF]

OK, thanks for answers and opinions. It appears I am correct in thinking that it took too long.

If I ever go to another one, I will be sure to bring along 'Jane's' 8-point list. Thanks Jane!

-

Edited November 5, 2012 by DaveF

[sbcman]

Hmmmm....makes one think that this line from page 70 of the rulebook should be amended: "IDPA has very quick and easy method of classifying shooters."

[GOF]

Jane's checklist is EXCELLENT! It will speed things up. One additional thing that I do is send the scorekeeper and ALL shooters... except for the on deck shooter... down to paste and score. I stay at the line with the on deck shooter and run him through the procedures one more time, and make sure that he has his mags & gear ready.

Having the set up for all three stages in the bay is smart, and doesn't take much in the way of props. If you put two stages side by side in the same bay (if there is room... and given the Classifier target set up there normally is), you can have Shooter 1 shoot on one target stage, and step back and let Shooter 2 shoot on the other target stage... then score and paste both.

With this system you can run two shooters through Stages 2 & 3 in about 5 minutes combined for both (assuming they have a 'mag loading buddy'), and be pasted & scored and ready for the next shooter. Stage 1 is the bottleneck.

The actual shooting portion of the Classifier takes little time. It's the pasting, and 'next shooter to the line' , and getting mags reloaded, that eats the day. I've been involved as a bay CSO at Classifiers where we have run 20+ shooters through the Classifier in less than five hours, using 2 set ups in one bay and alternating shooters before we paste. If you can open a second bay, you can cut the time quite a bit further.

The Classifier is a PITA... but organization makes it less so.

Edited November 5, 2012 by GOF

[Drachen27]

We run in squads of 5-7 shooters. Everyone runs through Stage 1 before anyone shoots Stage 2 etc. May not be faster, but at least you're shooting sooner than you would if each shooter went through the whole thing.

I advice people to bring as many magazines as possible, and load them all to max capacity.

Try to reduce the time between strings of fire. Shoot, RO reminds shooter of next string, shooter-ready...

We also try to swap RO's after an hour or so. As the RO gets tired, there's more wasted time.

[Steve Koski]

If'n you'd load yer mags up correctly, the classifier goes a lot faster.

Stage 1: 9/12/9

Stage 2: 12/6/12

Stage 3: Fill 'em all the way up.

[DaveF]

Thanks for all comments. There are numerous valid suggestions posted.

Here's the edited checklist so far (which I will be taking to next classifier):

*** Print out the classifier course description and put a copy of it in the back of each bay where the guys who are waiting can see it.

1. SO has cheat sheet in hand and briefly reminds shooter before each string. (" draw and fire six shots while moving from this line to that line.")

2. Squad pays attention. Each shooter doesn't come to the line and say "what do I do now?"

3. Designate mag loader buddies. The guy shooting shouldn't be wasting everyone's time standing at the line thumbing rounds into his/her magazine between strings.

4. Everybody tapes.

5. Set up each bay so all three stages are available on each.

6. Run everybody on that bay through stage 1 before running everybody through stage 2.

7. Have one of the better shooters go first so the less skilled can have an idea of not dragging this process out.

8. That means they need to be watching the first shooter(s), not sitting in the back of the bay BS-ing and not paying attention.

9. Send the scorekeeper and ALL shooters... except for the on-deck shooter... down to tape and score. SO stay at the line with the on-deck shooter and run him/her through the procedures one more time, and make sure that he has his mags & gear ready.

10. If you put two stages side by side in the same bay (if there is room... and given the Classifier target set up there normally is), you can have Shooter 1 shoot on one target stage, and step back and let Shooter 2 shoot on the other target stage... then score and paste both.

11. Bring as many magazines as possible, and load them all to max capacity.

12. RO reminds shooters of next string, shooter-ready, who's on deck, etc...

13. Try to swap RO's after an hour or so. As the RO gets tired, there's more wasted time.

14. Suggested magazine loading: Stage 1: 9/12/9, Stage 2: 12/6/12, Stage 3: Fill 'em all the way up.

Thanks JANE, GOF, Drachen27 and Steve Koski

[GmanCdp]

comments 2,3,9,14 will make a huge difference

good luck with #8

[hkguy]

alot depends on shooter skill too, do not forget to factor that in. a novice/low marksman will take a considerably longer to classify than an EX/MA. my club averages about 25-30 mins a shooter and we can class 35-45ish shooters in about 4 hours using 4 bays.

[ac4wordplay]

If'n you'd load yer mags up correctly, the classifier goes a lot faster.

Stage 1: 9/12/9

Stage 2: 12/6/12

Stage 3: Fill 'em all the way up.

Is it technically legal (permitted by the rule book) to load this way? It seems to violate division requirements... maybe I missed something.

[Steve Koski]

The written classifier rules actually require you to start each STRING (except for the few where you are intentionally downloaded so you'll run empty) at division capacity. Almost nobody does this as it would require a monumental amount of topping off mags while standing at the line, or a huge number of spare mags loaded with the precise number of rounds, either of which would slow things down to a near halt.

So if we're not going to do that, then let's get this damned match shot efficiently. If your mags hold an extra round or two, great. let's use that to our advantage.

This has been beat to death already.

[Ted Murphy]

If the SO knows the Course of Fire so he can explain it without woodenly reading the briefing it helps a lot.

Another thing that speeds things up is if the SO handles the ammo management instead of letting the shooter do it. This takes pressure off the shooter, and speeds up time.

Figure out his ammo capacity. Tell him/her when to reload. If the shooter does not have enough mags, help the shooter get the 2 round and 5 round magazine for the el pres stages.

Have a table or barrel sitting at the shooting positions when they are shooting static. Let them put ammo and extra magazines there.

Have a coffee can with you for revolver shooters to dump ammo in. Have them load the gun from the coffee can instead of speedloaders. (unless they have a ton like I do) That saves a lot of time.

Swap the targets out, have them paste the targets behind the line.

A few months ago, I ran 6 guys through the classifier set up on one bay in well under 90 minutes. 4 an hour is pretty normal, in one bay. My record for a guy who had a ton (enough for the entire classifier) of magazines and with 3 people swapping targets (9 targets, pasting and scoring when done) was a 5 minute classifier. That was not something you can do all the time, but we were trying to see how fast we could do it.

Ted

[Craig N]

I was told bring all my mags that would fit the gun...........the SO said to get ready and load all your mags.......so out come 5 G19 mags and 10 G17 mags. One of the CDP guys looked at me like I was crazy but I didnt have to reload any mags and had a full mag at all time with no thought work.

[GOF]

Regarding magazine capacity for the Classifier -- the Rule Book says one thing -- those of us who have run many Classifiers sometimes forget what the Rule Book says and just run things in the most expeditous manner possible.

Koski's magazine load out formula works very well and saves a lot of time.

[Sac Law Man]

Why limit the classifier two just 2 bays, unless thats all they had? Even a third set- up would have saved at least an hour. As stated above, time wasted between strings and especially stages is the big issue.

[COF]

Having three or more bays is great, but have everyone shoot Stage 1 at the same time to prevent back up on bays. Stage 2 and 3 are fairly close in overall time it takes to complete so you can run them at the same time.

If I had three bays, I would set them up for all three stages, shoot Stage 1, then Stage 2, then Stage 3 with the same squad.

If you have 4 or more bays, run Stage 1 on all bays first and then split the others between Stages 2 & 3 so they can be shot at the same time.

Jane, I like your checklist!

[COF]

Having three or more bays is great, but have everyone shoot Stage 1 at the same time to prevent back up on bays. Stage 2 and 3 are fairly close in overall time it takes to complete so you can run them at the same time.

If I had three bays, I would set them up for all three stages, shoot Stage 1, then Stage 2, then Stage 3 with the same squad.

If you have 4 or more bays, run Stage 1 on all bays first and then split the others between Stages 2 & 3 so they can be shot at the same time.

I've always told the shooters to load their mags up for the classifier. I've even had them shoot strings out of order on Stage 1 if it worked out better for ammo management.

Jane, I like your checklist!

[COF]

Can't get the editor function to work...just double posts the subject