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All ammo must come from table


Sarge

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Something I thought of today and thought I'd toss it out there.

WSB says gun unloaded on table and all ammo to be used on stage must come from table AND you must do a reload during the COF.

All shooting is to be done from behind table.

Can a shooter drop mag while holding it with weak hand then once it clears the gun just re insert it? I say yes. What do you think?

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Something I thought of today and thought I'd toss it out there.

WSB says gun unloaded on table and all ammo to be used on stage must come from table AND you must do a reload during the COF.

All shooting is to be done from behind table.

Can a shooter drop mag while holding it with weak hand then once it clears the gun just re insert it? I say yes. What do you think?

Kevin,

how does square with this definition of reloading?

Reloading . . . . . . .The replenishment or the insertion of additional ammunition into a firearm.

I'd argue that stuffing the same mag back in, is not inserting additional ammunition into the gun, rather it is reinserting rounds that were already in the gun.....

Now, if you want to drop the mag, load another round into it, and then stuff it in the gun and continue, I might be able to get behind that...

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Well based on the stage description you gave, the dropped mag came from the table to start with, so I see no penalty for picking up that mag and using it.

No it did not. It came from the gun.

Now if the shooter let the mag fall out of the gun & hit the table, THEN picked it up and put it back in the gun ........ I'd be okay with that. But I doubt that would be any faster than just picking up a new mag. I don't know why we continue to try and find new ways to game stages. Why can't we just shoot the stage like it was intended?

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We had a similar stage at yesterdays match. all mags on table including gun empty unprepped. IT just said that.

So a shooter picked up extra mags and stowed in his jackets front pocket. Single Stack.

Table was in the middle of shooting area, 2 shooting arrays on left and right of the table. With all mags on table to start, does this over ride Appendix E3?

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I don't know why we continue to try and find new ways to game stages. Why can't we just shoot the stage like it was intended?

Now that's funny. EVERY shooter, including yourself, who shoots a stage other than the way the designer intended it would be guilty.

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Well based on the stage description you gave, the dropped mag came from the table to start with, so I see no penalty for picking up that mag and using it.

No it did not. It came from the gun.

But it first came from the table first, which meets the WSB.

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AND you must do a reload during the COF.

Mandatory reload?

yes

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

1.1.5.2 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may include mandatory reloads and may dictate a shooting position, location or stance.

If it satisfies the above then under 8.1.4 Unless complying with a Division requirement (see Appendix D), a competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded or reloaded in a handgun. Written stage briefings may only stipulate when the handgun is to be loaded or when mandatory reloads are required (when permitted under Rules 1.1.5.1 and 1.1.5.2). So can you drop mag and re insert it to satisfy mandatory reload?

Edited by HoMiE
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We can't drop and reinsert a mag as a mandatory reload on a classifier. This mandatory reload is no different.

I agree with Nik.

8.1.4 doesn't say how many rounds or where mag has to come from.

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So you can drop mag and re insert it to satisfy mandatory reload.

I'll disagree -- you'

re not inserting "additional" ammunition, one of the requirements of reloading. Instead you're reinserting the original ammo load -- which could also subject you to a 10.6.1 DQ, if it looks like a deliberate move to avoid complying with the requirement while attempting to avoid the penalty (procedurals).....

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WSB says gun unloaded on table and all ammo to be used on stage must come from table AND you must do a reload during the COF.

On a more humorous side, you know, this could also be interpreted that ammo - meaning loose rounds, must be on the table and the reload is the insertion of the ammo into the magazine. Likewise, if all ammo to be used is not used, is that a procedural for not following the wsb?

Never saw ammo to be used, always saw magazines. Kind of the clip vs magazine deal.

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The main question would seem to be, does pulling a mag out and putting it back in constitute a reload?

I'm pretty sure that this has been covered before and the answer is no. I'm not sure that there is a rule that specifically states this, but the fact that this is not commonly done during classifiers is a pretty good indication that it's illegal. I'm quite sure that this is not the first time anyone has thought of this.

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Going through a few old post... Our 14th Edition rule book read like this:

- rule 8.4.1 (14th ed.) It states a reload is replacing one source of ammo with another.

It was clarified and cleaned up in the 2004 rule book (to what we see now, it seems). Not sure how the wording came about, but Vince was here then and his position was the same either way...you can't stick the same mag right back in and call it a reload.

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Reminds me of the people who think you can run outside the shooting area and simply jump up in the air when it's time to shoot.

If you are not outside of the shooting area, then you MUST be in it, right?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Please don't honor my silliness with a response.

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How much does the magazine need to pull out before re-penetration can be considered legal? This is a serious question :mellow:

Okay, perhaps not. Kevin has an excellent point though. I assert that additional language in the next revision of the rules stipulates that a reload must pertain to a source that has not yet been utilized in the current COF. (I know...what if you shoot El Prez and your reload mag pukes on you... You should have brought more mags than 2 to the stage)

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