Precision AR Build

[duxbellorum]

I want to build my first true competition gun. I took my time getting the lower the way I like it, Geissele trigger, ACE stock, LPK from LWRC, ergo grip, etc...

Now I am getting ready to buy the upper and I want to just open myself up to better wisdom before I make a choice. (and before you ask, I am sticking with 5.56/.223).

From my own research I am on the fence between the JP-15 (or CTR-02...I like the receiver but I'm not sure I can do without the forward assist...) and the LaRue Stealth upper. (I thought about building an upper myself with a Noveske barrel and a LaRue billet upper, but for all the trouble, I think a factory upper from either of the companies listed above will be superior...)

At this point, I'm more focused on the rifle being consistent than fast, ideally 1/2moa.

I know I need to stick with 1:7-1:8 twist and I really do need to stick with Stainless (the LWRC SPR would be fantastic, but that's 500+extra $ that I'd rather spend on optics)

If I had to make the choice Right now, I would go with the LaRue 20" stealth with the 13.2" handguard.I would probably get the barrel turned down to 18" and or get some weight shaved off at a later date. I like the company, and I think that rifle should function well at the line with the simple addition of a JM comp. It also gives me access to LaRue lowers which I will probably use for my next build.

So what do you think?

[Alaskapopo]

I am considering buying a JP 15 upper myself. I have owned Billet uppers and they look cool but I don't see they add any real benefit. I think you will be happier with a JP barrel than a Noveske one from the accuracy stand point.

pat

[Sleepswithdogs]

1/2 moa?

Edited September 25, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[Braxton1]

I wouldn't sweat the lack of a Forward Assist on an upper. In my experience, if you truly need the F/A to get a round to chamber, it will probably lead to a bigger problem (case head separation or some other "death jam").

[latech15]

I agree with braxton 100%. If you find yourself in a life and death situation with the enemy approaching, bang that round in there with the forward assist. In ANY other situation, it will lead to a stuck round 99% of the time.

I have a Nordic/wilson barrel that is capable of 3/8ths groups with 69's or 77's. The JP barrels are great as well. Skip the billet unless you really like the looks of it.

[Tuflehundon]

I do like having a forward assist in my rifle, but I think it's just cause that's what we had in the Marines. In my 8 years in the Corps, the only time I ever used the forward assist myself, or saw anyone else use it, was when we were using blanks and BFA's (blank firing adapters). Blanks and BFA's really gum up the works. But even then, if you just put a few drops of oil on the bolt through the ejection port, it would run again.

[MarkCO]

The Nordic 18" barrels are really tough to beat from every standpoint includignt he .223 Wylde chambering.

The uppers we build typically have the FA hole plugged. I've never seen anyone use one succesfully in competition, but I have seen three FA assemblies fail and jam up rifles. The buffer retainer pin on the lower is another piece that I skip on competition builds...can only cause you trouble.

As for billet...it adds weight and aesthetics, but no performance gain over a quality forged receiver.

[duxbellorum]

I'm not super-concerned about the Forward Assist, it was just a casual asthetic difference I had on hand to throw out there between the CTR-02 and hte JP-15

So I'm seeing a lot for JP, and for building it myself with a Nordic barrel (I still probably prefer noveske)

I would really like to hear whether anybody has gotten good results with a LaRue.

[Sleepswithdogs]

I want to build my first true competition gun. I took my time getting the lower the way I like it, Geissele trigger, ACE stock, LPK from LWRC, ergo grip, etc...

Now I am getting ready to buy the upper and I want to just open myself up to better wisdom before I make a choice. (and before you ask, I am sticking with 5.56/.223).

From my own research I am on the fence between the JP-15 (or CTR-02...I like the receiver but I'm not sure I can do without the forward assist...) and the LaRue Stealth upper. (I thought about building an upper myself with a Noveske barrel and a LaRue billet upper, but for all the trouble, I think a factory upper from either of the companies listed above will be superior...)

At this point, I'm more focused on the rifle being consistent than fast, ideally 1/2moa.

I know I need to stick with 1:7-1:8 twist and I really do need to stick with Stainless (the LWRC SPR would be fantastic, but that's 500+extra $ that I'd rather spend on optics)

If I had to make the choice Right now, I would go with the LaRue 20" stealth with the 13.2" handguard.I would probably get the barrel turned down to 18" and or get some weight shaved off at a later date. I like the company, and I think that rifle should function well at the line with the simple addition of a JM comp. It also gives me access to LaRue lowers which I will probably use for my next build.

So what do you think?

I think 1/2 moa is going to be a bull barrel and very hard to do at that.

[P.E. Kelley]

I want to build my first true competition gun. I took my time getting the lower the way I like it, Geissele trigger, ACE stock, LPK from LWRC, ergo grip, etc...

Now I am getting ready to buy the upper and I want to just open myself up to better wisdom before I make a choice. (and before you ask, I am sticking with 5.56/.223).

From my own research I am on the fence between the JP-15 (or CTR-02...I like the receiver but I'm not sure I can do without the forward assist...) and the LaRue Stealth upper. (I thought about building an upper myself with a Noveske barrel and a LaRue billet upper, but for all the trouble, I think a factory upper from either of the companies listed above will be superior...)

At this point, I'm more focused on the rifle being consistent than fast, ideally 1/2moa.

I know I need to stick with 1:7-1:8 twist and I really do need to stick with Stainless (the LWRC SPR would be fantastic, but that's 500+extra $ that I'd rather spend on optics)

If I had to make the choice Right now, I would go with the LaRue 20" stealth with the 13.2" handguard.I would probably get the barrel turned down to 18" and or get some weight shaved off at a later date. I like the company, and I think that rifle should function well at the line with the simple addition of a JM comp. It also gives me access to LaRue lowers which I will probably use for my next build.

So what do you think?

I think 1/2 moa is going to be a bull barrel and very hard to do at that.

Tar! now you've gone and done it! Don't you know that lots of guys have AR's that shoot "1/2 MOA a day long" Even some shoot "point two's" with their sticks.

Jeeze get with the program mister. ( I think we need a BS icon.)

[davidwiz]

I don't use the forward assist - why would you want to jam a stuck case *further* into the barrel?

[Alaskapopo]

1/2 moa?

I did not catch that in his post. 1/2 moa with a Semi auto is almost mythcal. I mean on a consistent basis. I have gotten groups smaller than that but you can't count on that. A really good barrel with a good shooter on a good day then 1/2 MOA is do able but its not the norm in my opinion.

Pat

[Sleepswithdogs]

Tar! now you've gone and done it! Don't you know that lots of guys have AR's that shoot "1/2 MOA a day long" Even some shoot "point two's" with their sticks.

Jeeze get with the program mister. ( I think we need a BS icon.)

One need only to look at the "Snipers Hide" challenge to see how difficult consistent 1/2 moa really is.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3588767&page=1

By the way, I have thrown my hat in the ring on that one. Going to shoot the course and have sworn to post no matter how frigg'n poor I do! Figure 2 weeks max and I'll be ready.

Of course:

Excuse #1. My barrel isn't broken in yet.

2. cheap scope

3. Out of practice

4. "The sun was in my eyes."

Yep, almost ready to go.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[duxbellorum]

perhaps I should clarify before this turns into a war. I know precisely how incredible a .5 moa rifle is. I don't expect to shoot that well every day of the week. I would like a rifle that is capable of 100 yard 1/2" groups at its best. I know that is possible...I have shot groups like that with other people's rifles. Frankly, it's actually easier to do than you'd think because these AR's have so little recoil.

That said, no rifle will do it all the time, and any rifle that averages out to <1 MOA is pretty much at the cutting edge...

So, anybody have any comments between LaRue and JP in terms of consistency?

[Sleepswithdogs]

perhaps I should clarify before this turns into a war. I know precisely how incredible a .5 moa rifle is. I don't expect to shoot that well every day of the week. I would like a rifle that is capable of 100 yard 1/2" groups at its best. I know that is possible...I have shot groups like that with other people's rifles. Frankly, it's actually easier to do than you'd think because these AR's have so little recoil.

That said, no rifle will do it all the time, and any rifle that averages out to <1 MOA is pretty much at the cutting edge...

So, anybody have any comments between LaRue and JP in terms of consistency?

Welcome!

Not much war around these parts.

LaRue vs JP, the classic no loose situation. Both fine rifles, and there are people who will tell you both are better. If you can, shoot one of each to see which you like best. You really can't go wrong with choices like those.

Tar

[P.E. Kelley]

No to be funny but you will be consistently pleased with either.

Their really is no one barrel that is THE barrel. All have fans.

I have AR's with Shilen, Lija, Saturn, Nordic, DPMS, Rock Creek and Black Hole Weaponry.

All of them shoot very well. Some have a preference for a brand of ammo or bullet. Others shoot great with most anything.

As of late I have moved toward the Black Hole barrels. They offer profiles I like, are local to me and have been consistent in accuracy AND

have not shifted POI when well heated!

Again, between the two you are thinking about eiher will serve you well.

Patrick

[grouse]

WOA SPR with matched bolt shot insanely accurate. At 100 yards, I was the limiting factor.

[duxbellorum]

Thankyou guys, that is the feedback I was looking for. I'll check out some of the companies you mentioned, but at this point I'll probably just call JP and LaRue and base my decision on whichever has the least lead-time.

[Kang8r]

Same here. I still find myself at times tapping the FA because I was trained to do it. But I dont think it's ever been necessary. About the only time I can think that it would be useful is when riding the bolt home with the charging handle for noise discipline.

I do like having a forward assist in my rifle, but I think it's just cause that's what we had in the Marines. In my 8 years in the Corps, the only time I ever used the forward assist myself, or saw anyone else use it, was when we were using blanks and BFA's (blank firing adapters). Blanks and BFA's really gum up the works. But even then, if you just put a few drops of oil on the bolt through the ejection port, it would run again.

[blind bat]

I wonder how many more KABOOMS we'd see if pistols had FAs?

Gotta squib? Assist it forward!

[StealthyBlagga]

I'm concerned by your comment that you would turn down the barrel later to get the weight you want. Bad idea! Chances are your accuracy will go to crap. Get the weight you want now and then don't mess with it. Also, in general, the heavier (stiffer the barrel, the better to accuracy.

[oak hill]

Gauge your ammo and double check it, you will never need FA

[duxbellorum]

I'm concerned by your comment that you would turn down the barrel later to get the weight you want. Bad idea! Chances are your accuracy will go to crap. Get the weight you want now and then don't mess with it. Also, in general, the heavier (stiffer the barrel, the better to accuracy.

My primary issue is with length, not contour. If I go with JP, no problem, however if I went with LaRue, they only put rifle length gas in their 20" gun. I would be happy to start with that, but I will eventually want to bring it down to 18" or even a little bit less.

[saibot]

Just to add my 2 cents here, I personally like having the forward assist since I press check and occasionally the BCG doesn't go back into battery. Typically when the rifle has been run hard or at the end of a high round count match is when I see that on my "precision" barrel since the chamber is a little tighter than the NATO chrome lined ones I use. A quick nudge of the FA and I'm good to go.

As a system, I think you'd be hard pressed finding a more accurate AR than the LaRue, but that's if you're getting the whole rifle from them since it is somewhat hand fitted (among other things) to yield higher accuracy. That being said, if you're planning on cutting the barrel down, recrowning, (and hopefully stress relieving) that upper, I'd suggest foregoing the LaRue and getting the JP. Tight chambers, great barrels, the right size, etc.

Again, just my opinion. Hope it helps!

[Sleepswithdogs]

Not sure if has been mentioned, but the JP LMBC doesn't even have serrations for the forward assist, so even if the plunger is on the rifle, with the JP LMBC it serves no function.

Tar