Open Gun Ammo

[Tristan]

Okay, As in my last topic I'm trying to pool some information on open pistols, and I'm trying to figure out what ammo is best other than reloaded ammo in .38 super open guns. For a while I have thought about getting into reloading, but each time I think about all of the dangers that it poses with trying to get small rounds to major power factor. I have see alot of debate, and I hoped I could get some insight on what kind of production ammo would actually cycle the slide on an STI Matchmaster. Has anyone ever used pmc, or magtech ammo?

[UW Mitch]

Learn to reload, do your homework, be safe. Or buy from Atlanta Arms or other vendor who specializes in ammo for USPSA shooters.

~Mitch

[GrumpyOne]

When I first got my super, I tried factory ammo, going for the hottest I could find (magtech) . I had a single shot 2011. About the only commercial 38 super ammo that might work would be CorBon, and that's gonna be expensive. Atlanta Arms and Ammo has 38s for you, but it may not run the gun to optimum efficiency. Loading for 38 super is really not dangerous at all.

[BLUTO]

Honestly I think your thinking too much.

All ammunition is loaded to a certain spec, be it reloaded or factory first time loaded. The "danger" really isn't there if you pay attention and go at it logically.

Major is 165. Factory ammo is ABOVE that number - so following your logic, factory ammo holds more dangers.

As to what will cycle the slide - that's not the right question as you can drop spring weight and get the most anemic round to cycle the slide. The question is will factory make 165.

If the gun has a comp subtract at least 10 on the PF. Poppel holes another 10 to 20. Both and no matter what you put in the pipe you get tossed for sub major chrony results.

I was told a while back when I asked similar "If your gonna shoot open, your gonna reload".

Im sure others more knowledgeable will give you more eloquent answers.

[Pat Miles]

Okay, As in my last topic I'm trying to pool some information on open pistols, and I'm trying to figure out what ammo is best other than reloaded ammo in .38 super open guns. For a while I have thought about getting into reloading, but each time I think about all of the dangers that it poses with trying to get small rounds to major power factor. I have see alot of debate, and I hoped I could get some insight on what kind of production ammo would actually cycle the slide on an STI Matchmaster. Has anyone ever used pmc, or magtech ammo?

Why do you think reloading for 38 Super is dangerous? Getting small rounds(?) to a major power factor is no more dangerous than loading for Production minor. Pay attention to details and follow the usual reloading safety rules and you will be fine.

Pat

[Guest]

Never met an open division shooter who didn't know his (or her) way around a loading press.

I believe it is part of the skill set which needs to be developed to shoot open.

Ever since the power factor was lowered to 165 it is really no issue loading to major with good margins of safety. Lots of powders can do it, and some powders even have published loads which will make major. You could start out loading minor and shoot minor and as you get more comfortable work your way up to major as you hone your reloading chops.

I'd also strongly recommend that you budget for a chronograph as part of your investment in shooting open.

[Tristan]

Thanks, also, where can you find the most effective recoil springs for that smaller ammo?

[GrumpyOne]

Honestly I think your thinking too much.

All ammunition is loaded to a certain spec, be it reloaded or factory first time loaded. The "danger" really isn't there if you pay attention and go at it logically.

Major is 165. Factory ammo is ABOVE that number - so following your logic, factory ammo holds more dangers.

As to what will cycle the slide - that's not the right question as you can drop spring weight and get the most anemic round to cycle the slide. The question is will factory make 165.

If the gun has a comp subtract at least 10 on the PF. Poppel holes another 10 to 20. Both and no matter what you put in the pipe you get tossed for sub major chrony results.

I was told a while back when I asked similar "If your gonna shoot open, your gonna reload".

Im sure others more knowledgeable will give you more eloquent answers.

When I started with 38s, using magtech 130 grain fmj factory ammo (1,215fps, which winds up being a PF of 157.5, which isn't major) with a 9lb spring, it wouldn't cycle the slide. Bought an 8lb spring, wouldn't cycle the slide, cut 2 coils off of the 8lb spring, still wouldn't cycle the slide. This was out of a bone stock STI Trubor. A lighter spring than that won't strip a round out of the mag and go into full battery, unless you lighten the slide drastically. Either buy a press and reload, or buy AAA.

Edited September 17, 2012 by GrumpyOne

[al503]

I wouldn't shoot open unless I reloaded for it. Nothing against the commercial reloaders but I've shot some of the ammo and it was not pleasant. They have to load for the shortest barrels with the biggest holes so it makes major PF in all pistols. Being able to tailor your loads to your pistol is the key to getting the best performance.

[Alaskapopo]

Honestly I think your thinking too much.

All ammunition is loaded to a certain spec, be it reloaded or factory first time loaded. The "danger" really isn't there if you pay attention and go at it logically.

Major is 165. Factory ammo is ABOVE that number - so following your logic, factory ammo holds more dangers.

As to what will cycle the slide - that's not the right question as you can drop spring weight and get the most anemic round to cycle the slide. The question is will factory make 165.

If the gun has a comp subtract at least 10 on the PF. Poppel holes another 10 to 20. Both and no matter what you put in the pipe you get tossed for sub major chrony results.

I was told a while back when I asked similar "If your gonna shoot open, your gonna reload".

Im sure others more knowledgeable will give you more eloquent answers.

A comp does not reduce your velocity or power factor. Poppel holes will rob velocity but not a comp. No factory 38 super will not make major. You need to reload as others have stated.

Pat

[EkuJustice]

It really is not that big of a deal getting it to Major in a 38 super. Start low and work up using a slow buring powder such as HS6, autocomp etc. There is plenty of info on it in the loading section then just start below that and work it up with a chrono to get where you want to be. Once you try it you realize its not that bad.

[mike3232]

I am shooting a Matchmaster in 38s. The magtec would cycle the gun ok, but not reliable as I wanted. I started loading and found what seemed to be the safest powder (VV n105) and worked the load up. I started with 124 gr mg at 9.7, and slowly went up to what my load is now 10.3. It's 174 pf and the gun runs flawlessly.

[Pat Miles]

Thanks, also, where can you find the most effective recoil springs for that smaller ammo?

What smaller ammo? If you are going to shoot Open division you will still need to make the 165 power factor. Odds are that if you find a commercial ammunition that comes in around 165 the gun will not be shooting at it's full potential. A higher velocity and thus a higher volume of gas will work the comp more efficiently and make the gun shoot flatter. What you might just end up with is an open gun that shoots like a limited gun and not with the advantages of an open gun.

You spent the $$ for an open gun, feed it the ammo to make it behave like an open gun.

As far as recoil springs, you will still need an 8-10 spring. Shooters Connection or Brownells will have what you need.

Pat

Edited September 18, 2012 by Pat Miles

[sauza45]

Reloading is safe as long as you watch what you are doing. If you shoot open you need to reload. I reload for every gun I shoot.

No only can you tailor the load for your gun, you can save money on ammo so you can shoot more.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you are just starting to think about shooting open then I would get a STI Tru-Bor in 9mm. That way you can use factory 9mm minor loads to get you going. I would then get a Dillon press and start reloading 9mm major. The money you save by starting with 9mm minor factory loads will give you enough to pay for the Dillon press you want. Save your brass starting now Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[Xdmeister]

Just start reloading. End of story.

[Parallax3D]

Tristan, just start reloading.

It's really not that dangerous if you follow directions and pay attention to detail.

Reloading for Open Major, (.38 Super or 9mm), got a bad rap because years ago the PF for major used to be 175. Since they have reduced the PF to 165, and because there are better powders available now than there were years ago, it is a LOT safer now.

My 9mm major load is currently a 124gr MG JHP, 6.8gr of Winchester Autocomp, and CCI #400 primers, (small rifle), loaded to 1.165" OAL. It makes 174PF out of my full size open gun, and there are no pressure signs.

1. Get a press and read the manuals.
2. Consult your friends who shoot Open and ask them what their load is, or check the Reloading forums here.
3. Reduce their load by .5gr - 1gr and load a few rounds.
4. Shoot them through YOUR gun and chrono them.
5. Put down a tarp to catch the brass and examine it for pressure signs.
6. Increase your load until it makes major and you don't have any pressure signs.

[jid2]

I started right out of the gate with zero previous experience Shooting open and loading 9mm major. Its no big deal.

[Glockman1000]

Like others have said, loading .38 Super major now has come a long way from what started in the early days of IPSC. The early 80's had it's own form of 9mm major that was outlawed due to the realized dangers of producing it. With the powders now, it is one of the main cartridges used now. There's a ton of information to safely load for major & I'm sure you have people in your club that would be more than willing to help you get started. This forum by itself is a wealth of knowledge for any person starting in handloading/reloading.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I thought about reloading, but I think about the dangers trying to get small rounds to major power factor.

Tristan, I reloaded 9mm minor for years, but was afraid of reloading

9mm major, also. I bought a TruBor in 9mm, as Alaska mentioned, and

was using factory ammo in it so I didn't have to reload Major.

After a few months, I found a club member who reloaded and sold me some

9mm major ammo - shot that for a while, and decided to get back into

reloading.

Started out reloading 9mm +P+ - around 150 PF. No problem.

Then slowly, I increased the dose until I got up to pf 160 - left it

there for a few weeks. Then bumped it up to 165.

Wouldn't have had the courage to do that without the reloads I had

purchased and the info here on this Forum.

I now load to PF 175 without any fear at all.

Yes, you can start out at 9mm minor, or .38 super minor, but slowly

it is worth getting into reloading your own Major loads - don't

forget, that Major loads are not that much hotter than some European

military 9mm loads - and in .38 super, most are very close to Major.

Just start slowly, at your own pace - no reason to rush into it.

[RayFromHouston]

I work pipeline construction all over the contry, so reloading is kinda hard for me to do in my travle trailer.. So I alway get my 38 super from Atlanta Arms..... I think I just had my 5th. case shiped to me up here in PA. in the last 5 years of shooting open.....

[GrumpyOne]

I work pipeline construction all over the contry, so reloading is kinda hard for me to do in my travle trailer.. So I alway get my 38 super from Atlanta Arms..... I think I just had my 5th. case shiped to me up here in PA. in the last 5 years of shooting open.....

And AAA is a good alternative.....but, its not tailored to the gun and the way you want it to feel....

[traviswilson]

Reload, my opinion its the only way to positively use the comps on open guns.

[bk94]

Bought some Atlanta Arms Ammo (38 super major) when I first started shooting but then found reloading is alot better for tayloring a load to your gun.