CM 03-02

[lugnut]

This one appears to be written the way you'd want it Sarge...

http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/03-03.pdf

[Chris Keen]

I disagree with everyone ....... including those who have mentioned the word "intent". We're not arguing about freestyle field-courses here. These are Classifiers. They have their own set of guidelines as derived from the course book below.

As quoted from the National Classification Book 4th Edition - Revised February 22, 2012.

ADMINISTRATION OF THE USPSACLASSIFICATION PROGRAM

Every possible effort has been made to ensure that all the stages in this book are “game proof.” The courses have been repeatedly reviewed by many people with hundreds of years of combined practical shooting and course design experience. These include Range Officers, Chief Range Officers, Range Masters, Range Master Instructors, and the Director of the National Range Officers Institute. The nature of the project is such that there are probably undetected errors in spite of all that effort. In most cases the intent of the course will be obvious. USPSA requests that you honor that intent.

Practical shooting is distinct from other shooting disciplines in that the responsibility for determining the best, safe solution to the problem presented by a course of fire is the competitor’s. In other words, practical shooting intends to test the ability to think in addition to testing the ability to shoot rapidly and accurately. That intent is formalized in the Practical Shooting Handbook, in which IPSC 1.1.5 says, “IPSC matches are freestyle.”
It is, however, necessary to establish an exception in the case of the classification system. The classification system is able to determine a competitor’s accuracy and speed as those abilities are quantifiable. The system is not able to measure the ability to “game” a stage as those intangible skills are not quantifiable. If competitors are allowed to outsmart the classification course designer the results are meaningless.

The primary responsibility for honoring this concept of fairness as it applies to the classification system lies with the competitor. The secondary responsibility is that of the match directors and range officers to ensure that the stages are run properly. If the stage description leaves any doubt as to the proper procedure, please call the office for clarification before the match.

In circumstances where target heights are not specified, use the standard measurement of 5 feet high at shoulders. For shooting boxes that do not include dimensions, use boxes that are 3 feet by 3 feet. Poppers placed in front of paper targets are 4 feet from the rear target unless otherwise specified. Again, if there is any doubt, call the USPSA office for

clarification.

* [emphasis added]

Edited April 25, 2013 by Chris Keen

[Sarge]

This is what I was getting at. Classifiers are intended to be shot a certain way. There is clear intent here and uspsa even asks that we honor that intent.

Thanks Chris

Edited April 25, 2013 by Sarge

[lugnut]

Intent is a difficult thing to understand. I shoot IDPA as well and determining INTENT is NOT an easy thing to do. I will agree that in this case I think most of us understand the way the stage is supposed to be shot. Regardless the WSBs need to be corrected.

[Chris Keen]

Intent is a difficult thing to understand. I shoot IDPA as well and determining INTENT is NOT an easy thing to do. I will agree that in this case I think most of us understand the way the stage is supposed to be shot. Regardless the WSBs need to be corrected.

I concur.

[Sarge]

Response from DNROI :

Practical shooting is distinct from other shooting disciplines in that the responsibility for determining the best, safe solution to the problem presented by a course

of fire is the competitor’s. In other words, practical shooting intends to test the ability to think in addition to testing the ability to shoot rapidly and accurately. That

intent is formalized in the Practical Shooting Handbook, in which IPSC 1.1.5 says, “IPSC matches are freestyle.” It is, however, necessary to establish an exception in the

case of the classification system. The classification system is able to determine a competitor’s accuracy and speed as those abilities are quantifiable. The system is

not able to measure the ability to “game” a stage as those intangible skills are not quantifiable. If competitors are allowed to outsmart the classification course designer

the results are meaningless.

The primary responsibility for honoring this concept of fairness as it applies to the classification system lies with the competitor. The secondary responsibility is that

of the match directors and range officers to ensure that the stages are run properly. If the stage description leaves any doubt as to the proper procedure, please call the

office for clarification before the match.

In circumstances where target heights are not specified, use the standard measurement of 5 feet high at shoulders. For shooting boxes that do not include dimensions,

use boxes that are 3 feet by 3 feet. Poppers placed in front of paper targets are 4 feet from the rear target unless otherwise specified. Again, if there is any doubt,

call the USPSA office for clarification.

Now the rule book states: 10.2.1 A competitor who fires shots while any part of their body is touching the ground or while stepping on an object beyond a Shooting Box or a

Fault Line, or who gains support or stability through contact with an object which is wholly beyond and not attached to a Shooting Box or Fault Line, will receive one procedural

penalty for each occurrence.

However, if the competitor has gained a significant advantage on any target(s) while faulting, the competitor may instead be assessed one procedural penalty for each shot fired

at the subject target(s) while faulting. No penalty is assessed if a competitor does not fire any shots while faulting.

So based on the fact that you start in a box, 4 fault lines on the ground and the rule book states that if you fire any shots for faulting these lines or box, it is one procedural per shot

If an advantage is gained, why would anyone want to leave the box? Oh, game the stage, which reverts back to the classification book and the first part of the answer as to responsibility

for fairness and the fact the classification system has no way to measure the ability to “game” a stage.

John

In short, Don't leave the box.

[lcs]

disagree Larry, it supports nothing but a box as the start position. nothing in there that says something like "from box a, engage...". as has been said on the forum an infinite number of times, it's freestyle, if you want it shot a certain way, put it in the wsb.

I may not have quoted the proper rule as NROI did, but NROI clearly supports the box as the shooting area. Classifiers are different my friend.

[Paul Santiago]

disagree Larry, it supports nothing but a box as the start position. nothing in there that says something like "from box a, engage...". as has been said on the forum an infinite number of times, it's freestyle, if you want it shot a certain way, put it in the wsb.

I may not have quoted the proper rule as NROI did, but NROI clearly supports the box as the shooting area. Classifiers are different my friend.

Good rules discussion, eh?

[GrumpyOne]

40 0 13.52 2.9586

I suck

[Sarge]

disagree Larry, it supports nothing but a box as the start position. nothing in there that says something like "from box a, engage...". as has been said on the forum an infinite number of times, it's freestyle, if you want it shot a certain way, put it in the wsb.

I may not have quoted the proper rule as NROI did, but NROI clearly supports the box as the shooting area. Classifiers are different my friend.

Good rules discussion, eh?

I think so. Many of the classifiers are worded "wrong" but clearly the intent of the classifier should be followed.

[warpspeed]

I don't know. There seems to be some inconsistently written WSBs for classifiers.

CM03-04 says specifically " All rounds must be fired from within Box A"

CM03-02 has no such language.

So I would surmise that when shoot Six Chickens I can go wherever I want once the buzzer goes off but for 3-V, I cannot.

[emjei]

No updates since 2013 ??? I shoot this one tomorrow :-(

Mj

[MedicAJ]

I shot this one over the weekend. 8.23sec, 9A, 3C, 57pts. HF 6.85. If my math is correct, my first M classifier (86.709%).

[rowdyb]

This is a 9 second classifier for me in Production. The time you take to run up there will totally kill your score. (And I don't think that's what was wanted either but do see that it's not explicitly said either.) I shoot this tomorrow and will come back and edit and add in my score. If it's less than 95% I'll not be happy as I also agree this is one of the easier ones it seems to shoot a 100.

EDITED: I went a bit "hero or zero" mode in the match and shot a no-shoot. So I waited till the end and paid the $3 and reshot it once. 100% from what I can see. Production. 9.31 seconds. 11 alpha, 1 charlie.

Edited December 13, 2015 by rowdyb

[S&W686]

Shot this classifier this weekend. 3/10/18

 

Firearm - JP GMR-15 with C-More Slide Ride 8 MOA

Division - PCC

Class - B

Time - 9.59

Points - 52

Hit Factor - 5.4223

 

[rowdyb]

Shot this in a classifier match yesterday. I think it was my very first 100 back a few years. Glad I still got it.

Production.

9.51 seconds

10-A, 2-C

5.88 HF

98%

[B_RAD]

3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Shot this in a classifier match yesterday. I think it was my very first 100 back a few years. Glad I still got it.

Production.

9.51 seconds

10-A, 2-C

5.88 HF

98%

I've never shot this one. This one does not seem to favor Limited. Almost 2pt HF difference between lim/prod. 

 

 

Congrats on the good run. 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by B_RAD