shootingchef Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Bed stage, all mags on one stand, unloaded pistol on the other. Bed itself is Area A. Shoot all targets from area A. 8 round CoF. I want to take my holster off before I shoot this stage, AM I legal to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Bed stage, all mags on one stand, unloaded pistol on the other. Bed itself is Area A. Shoot all targets from area A. 8 round CoF. I want to take my holster off before I shoot this stage, AM I legal to do so? No. See: 5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command. The fact that you won't use the holster/pouches is irrelevant..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Bed stage, all mags on one stand, unloaded pistol on the other. Bed itself is Area A. Shoot all targets from area A. 8 round CoF. I want to take my holster off before I shoot this stage, AM I legal to do so? No. See: 5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command. The fact that you won't use the holster/pouches is irrelevant..... Rule doesn't apply, moving holster or mag pouches is not the same as taking your belt off. Best not have to do a #2 during a match........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 So if you're a Open, Limited, or Revolver shooter and you are going to shoot the classifier Long Range Standards 2, it's okay to remove the front mag pouch or moon clip holder before shooting the stage? Personally, I don't think so. I think that rule 5.2.5.3 applies. You setup your gear for the match and live with it. If you need to go use the restroom, no problem, but get the gear back in the same placement at the start of the match. It's not like you are expected to sleep with your gear on if you are shooting Saturday evening and Sunday morning during a multi-day match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Bed stage, all mags on one stand, unloaded pistol on the other. Bed itself is Area A. Shoot all targets from area A. 8 round CoF. I want to take my holster off before I shoot this stage, AM I legal to do so? No. See: 5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command. The fact that you won't use the holster/pouches is irrelevant..... Rule doesn't apply, moving holster or mag pouches is not the same as taking your belt off. Best not have to do a #2 during a match........ Are you gonna get it back on in the exact same position after you take it off? Even if its 1mm off from the position it was in, then it has been moved.... And that was during a match, so Nik gave you the section.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleL Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 So the unwritten rule of the match... There shall be no dropping of deuces after the start of or during a match, on match day. Only after the last shot fired shall deuce dropping be permitted by any and all competitors. Never have I been told when I can poo and when I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwb01 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Bed stage, all mags on one stand, unloaded pistol on the other. Bed itself is Area A. Shoot all targets from area A. 8 round CoF. I want to take my holster off before I shoot this stage, AM I legal to do so? No. See: 5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command. The fact that you won't use the holster/pouches is irrelevant..... I routinely remove my rig before lunch and put it back on after lunch....I see lots of people do this. I guess that would be a violation as well... Sounds like an unenforceable rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Not the point of tha rule to the deuce crowd. You start each stage with your gear in the same spot. Taking it off between stages (gun out of holster of course) or at night is fine. but when the buzzer sounds it better all be on and in the same spot. BTW if you'd prefer additional enforcement of this we could go to the equipment card IPSC uses and the RO can inspect you on every stage. Or we can go with common sense and peer pressure that has worked so well previously. If you show up at a stage with no holster, I think the RO can figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeislarge Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 So the unwritten rule of the match... There shall be no dropping of deuces after the start of or during a match, on match day. Only after the last shot fired shall deuce dropping be permitted by any and all competitors. Never have I been told when I can poo and when I can't. I prefer to poo wearing my gun. You never know when banditos will storm the porto-potty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Bed stage, all mags on one stand, unloaded pistol on the other. Bed itself is Area A. Shoot all targets from area A. 8 round CoF. I want to take my holster off before I shoot this stage, AM I legal to do so? No. See: 5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command. The fact that you won't use the holster/pouches is irrelevant..... Rule doesn't apply, moving holster or mag pouches is not the same as taking your belt off. Best not have to do a #2 during a match........ Keep thinking that...... I won't start you on the stage unless they're in place..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38SuperDub Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Why won't you start the shooter? Where does it say a shooter has to have a belt on to run a stage? I've been allowed to take belts off before. I've heard first hand that shooters at nationals have been allowed to remove belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You've "heard first hand"? I can't even believe we're having this discussion. There are certain aspects of our rules that are confusing and potentially ambiguous. This is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Lets look at this as the rule was intended. Stage 1 gotta go prone: Let's slide all these pouches to the rear. Stage 2 I am sitting for the start. Let's move everything forward so that it does not snag the chair. Stage 3 is a bed start. Let's keep everything forward. Stage 4 is a normal start. Let's move everything back to their normal positions on the belt. Not gonna happen. You put your gear on and you shoot the match. You might make small adjustments throughout the match to put things back where they should be. A mag pouch loosens up and starts crowding the one in front of it, so you slide it back and try to snug it back down. But you are not allowed to make major changes to your gear depending on how the stage is set up. This includes removal of your belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38SuperDub Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You've "heard first hand"? I can't even believe we're having this discussion. There are certain aspects of our rules that are confusing and potentially ambiguous. This is not one of them. Yes like friends who have shot multiple nationals and have been allowed to remove belts. I happen to trust my friends. Interesting to see nroi response on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ahhh...somebody did something at Nationals, therefore it is legal? Nik quoted the proper rule. This one is pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 If you remove your belt prior to shooting the stage as described in the op, where do you put your gun at the end of the stage at "hammer down, holster"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Withdrawn as I should not have posted another's comments without permission. My apologies. Edited August 7, 2012 by shootingchef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38SuperDub Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Shot a stage similar to the OP recently. Since was shooting prone WITH belt on we were informed to unload an show clear, hammer down, ground gun on table, get out of prone position, holster gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Come on guys, just wear the damn belt and holster the way you always do. Don't like it on a bed start? Fix it BEFORE you come to the match. It really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Why wouldn't the WSB specify removal of belt/holster for a bed start. Sleeping with your holster seems highly impractical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 My point is that there is nothing in the rule book that says you have to wear a holster for a stage if it's not needed. Unless otherwise specified in the WSB. I just want people to be aware of this so that there is less confusion on the range. I don't like it when an RO or RM makes up their own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbeauxdawg Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Shot a stage similar to the OP recently. Since was shooting prone WITH belt on we were informed to unload an show clear, hammer down, ground gun on table, get out of prone position, holster gun. Technically those are not range commands and should not have been used. I see the point in using them (for safety reasons) but they are still not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbeauxdawg Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 My point is that there is nothing in the rule book that says you have to wear a holster for a stage if it's not needed. Unless otherwise specified in the WSB. I just want people to be aware of this so that there is less confusion on the range. I don't like it when an RO or RM makes up their own rules. How about: 5.2.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist, or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. If you take your holster or belt off it is no longer at waist level and you therefore cannot start the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 My point is that there is nothing in the rule book that says you have to wear a holster for a stage if it's not needed. Unless otherwise specified in the WSB. I just want people to be aware of this so that there is less confusion on the range. I don't like it when an RO or RM makes up their own rules. How about: 5.2.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist, or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. If you take your holster or belt off it is no longer at waist level and you therefore cannot start the stage. again only IF you are wearing the belt does it have to be at waist level. Nothing says you required to wear the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Again, like was pointed out above, where are you going to put your gun after you are done shooting? Going to bag it and then go to a safe area, put your belt back on and gun up for the next COF I love range lawyers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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