ntphd Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Let me start with a couple qualifications: 1) I know this question is both binky and annoyingly complicated; and 2) I know everyone's first response would be, "just get the shadow." I'm in the market for a CZ, but my local range doesn't carry them (important only because this means I can't rent one and try it out). I shot an SP-01 Shadow from CZ Custom a couple of weeks ago at a match. No question, the trigger was sweeter than I ever imagined a DA/SA trigger could be. I'd prefer to get an SP-01 Tactical for the following reasons: 1) Cost (I know all the good arguments about the real costs of competitive shooting being match fees and ammo; thing is, I only shoot local matches [precisely because I can shoot a local match every month of the year and not spend the same as one major match.) 2) I know I'm supposed to prefer competition sights with a FO front sight, but I don't. My eyes are such that I see the three-dot sights more easily. My primary concern is that I have no way of knowing what the trigger feels like on the stock SP-01 tactical. The only thing close at my range is a clone (Armalite). I'm not sure whether to take the Armalite as a rough equivalent because of some performance problems I had with it (several stovepipes jams with both wwb and reloads). The reviews I've read of SP-01s is that they are great out of the box. Point is, I have no idea whether the triggers are as similar as the "clone" status would suggest. So, finally, to my question: I have no doubt that the CZ Custom Shop is right when they say their Shadow has a "much better trigger" than the stock SP-01, but I'd like to know *how much better*. Have any of you used the less expensive, stock models in competition? What do you think? Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 the armalite is pretty much the same. change the hammer spring and it gets much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 p.s. when you say sp-01 "tactical" i assume you mean the manual safety version, not the decocker. all said and done, i shoot a stock sp-01 with sights and 2 springs changed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 isn't the 'tactical' the decocker? what is the manual safety version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 sp-01 is manual safety. sp-01 tactical added the decocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Factory CZs have heavy triggers. DA will be about 12# and SA will be about 6# and have a lot of creep. a lighter hammer spring will help the feel of the DA stroke. but the creep will remain until you recut the hammer hooks or replace the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 If you want a better trigger on the standard sp01, it's easy to achieve with the cajun gun-works kit and a lighter spring kit for a total of $125 or so. I did that to my 75bd and immediately lost interest for now in getting a shadow for competition. the difference between the stock trigger on the 75b/bd and the cgw-kit is dramatic, and allows me to shoot tighter groups more quickly. I'm sure it could be better, but I'm going to have to try something better and improve my skills before i could consider shelling out more dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntphd Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Thanks for the great information! If any others in the CZ group have anything to add, I'm all ears. Some replies / questions: burningsquirrels: the SP-01 Tactical I'm looking at would be the decocker version (i.e., no manual safety). Do you know of any problems with that model? motosapiens: I just checked out Cajun Gun Works. This looks like a really good option to me. Is there a good gunsmithing video that covers the SP-01? (I'm not gifted with innate mechanical intelligence, but I can follow instructions pretty well.) eerw: thanks for the specifics about trigger weight. I looked on the CZ website, but couldn't find that information. Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 manual safety is easier to work on if you plan on doing so yourself. the decocker is just a pain to take apart and put together. also, some people with high grips (including me) complain that hte decocking lever gets in the way. one nice thing about a decocker is that the DA pull is shorter since it starts from a half-cock position, but other than that - it is not my preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 My first CZ SP01 was a deckcocker that I sent to Angus, the trigger was better, but not what I was expecting. Angus even said that it would be as good. Second one was a manual safety style and after a trip to CZ was 100% better the stock trigger is gritty, long and heavy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59Bassman Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 IMHO, if you're getting a CZ, get a safety version. When I was shopping for my Production gun, I came down to three guns. The 75 Shadow, the 85 Combat, and the Stainless 75B. I did a pro/con list for each, and was going to go the "buy cheap and upgrade" route. In the end I decided to buy what I wanted the first time and got the 75 Shadow. I have not regretted that choice. The only thing that would make me think twice about not buying the Shadow is the FPB. If you buy a gun that has one, you're pretty much stuck with it for UPSPA Production. The Shadow does not have one, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) IMHO what you should get depends on what you'll be happier with over the long haul... as the triggers get nicer, it gets more expensive as far as the models go, but that said, you can't really get a better trigger on a DA/SA gun than a Shadow's. For what they cost, they're worth it... for just short of a grand or so, there aren't any 1911's or really any other guns avaible that are in the Shadow's league. A standard SP-01 with lighter recoil and hammer springs is pretty good, in fact in my case, I can shoot a stock SP-01 better than Glocks I've had that had near $300 triggers dropped in. An SP-01 with the lighter springs and then a CZC competition hammer installed is even better, many could stop there and be totally happy for a long, long time. The Shadow is just a little better still, having no FPB means a slightly cleaner pull and a much shorter reset, but if it's what you're really after, then the extra couple hundred bucks it takes gets forgotten about quickly... JMHO (and most other CZers opinion's too), but: SP-01 "Tactical" with the decocker = Hell No! You do not want one, you may think you do, but you don't... trust us, once you're comfortable lowering the hammer manually or running cocked n' locked you'll see that the decocker is sort of pointless and you'll kick yourself later. Edited January 26, 2012 by ck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 JMHO (and most other CZers opinion's too), but: SP-01 "Tactical" with the decocker = Hell No! You do not want one, you may think you do, but you don't... trust us. Yep,+1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 JMHO (and most other CZers opinion's too), but: SP-01 "Tactical" with the decocker = Hell No! You do not want one, you may think you do, but you don't... trust us, once you're comfortable lowering the hammer manually or running cocked n' locked you'll see that the decocker is sort of pointless and you'll kick yourself later. hahaha....indeed.. I finally have gotten to point of being able to work over a decocker gun with near same results as a safety gun. kind of a personal challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 decockers are just a pain. once nice thing about them is they are usually cheaper on the used market, lol. but i'll say this: if money matters, hawk the classifieds and pick up a used sp-01 of any sort. i've seen regular sp-01s go as low as $400 with a couple mags. but i'll also say this: the gun itself is the cheapest part of the sport. if you want something out of the box, you can get a full on sp-01 shadow from stuart. but i'll also say that i pretty much like anything out of box that is 1. CZ and 2. has the hammer and recoil spring changed and 3. plain black sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntphd Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I really appreciate all the feedback. I wouldn't have imagined/known the decocker made it more difficult to work on. Thanks for saving me a lot of hassle! Anyone else have experience with the Cajun trigger kits? Also, any tips on gunsmithing videos? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 motosapiens: I just checked out Cajun Gun Works. This looks like a really good option to me. Is there a good gunsmithing video that covers the SP-01? (I'm not gifted with innate mechanical intelligence, but I can follow instructions pretty well.) i found some on youtube, and david the cgw guy pointed me to a good thread on calguns.net with tons of pix for my decocker model. I was a little hesitant at first, but cgw instructions are good, and the installation turned out to be pretty straightforward. I had never had a cz apart before, so i felt the experience was very valuable just in learning more about my gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revopop Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 When asking questions about CZs, the general consensus seems to be listen to what eerw (aka Stuart Wong of Colorado Springs) says. I'd been eyeing a CZ for years, but then this last fall I finally ran across a great deal on a CZ-75B and had some extra cash in the gun fund. It was such a good deal that I had the seller (bought it on GunBroker) send it straight to Stuart for a trigger job. I also had him install night sights while he was at it. Now I've never handled a Shadow, so I don't have a standard of comparison, but it is definitely the best DA/SA gun I've ever owned. The DA is smooth and the SA is as nice anything other than a 1911. I wanted to use it for carry and nightstand duty as well, so the FPB is intact and Stuart used all stock parts. He said the trigger pull could be lighter with a CZ competition hammer and some other tweaks, but again I wanted to use it as a defensive pistol as well. Having said all that, I've got about half the cost of a CZ Custom Shadow in my 75B, and I couldn't be happier with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 yup, +1. if money really is a concern, just buy used, and stu can always turn it into gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I really appreciate all the feedback. I wouldn't have imagined/known the decocker made it more difficult to work on. Thanks for saving me a lot of hassle! Anyone else have experience with the Cajun trigger kits? Also, any tips on gunsmithing videos? Thanks again. The Cajun Gun Works stuff is great. David is a good guy and stands behind his products. Lots of good stuff coming from him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I thought the SP 01 did not have the firing pin block since it doesn't have B on the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 it has it. only the shadow and combat models are exempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audifn Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Hey Matt, I just found one of these for $850: http://czcustom.com/cz75shadowsadablk.aspx it says it's a shadow, but it's not a sp01. Whats the difference? Any downside? Can you tune it? I know it's not ideal, but at least it's a gun to shoot (providing it can be dialed in) unitl the guns come in country. Lemme know as soon as you can, Tanner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 That gun has comp hammer, just needs lighter hammer spring and some tweaking to be nice. Main difference from full custom is trigger pull weight, grips sights, springs, polishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_P Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Being a short dust cover gun, you loose a lot of the weight out front that keeps the sp01 flat. if you are shooting uspsa, I'd hold out for an sp01. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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