West Texas Granny Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 It's really quite simple. 1. Initial and continuing costs are low thereby making it affordable as a family activity which is a goal we should work towards. Our sport if viewed as a family activity makes it more difficult for the anti-gun forces to make headway against us. 2. It's more friendly to those of all ages and gender who don't like recoil, have arthritis,physical disability or want to keep costs down. 3. Such a division will create an entry point for new shooters to grow into the regular USPSA matches. 4. It has the potential to become a major event in USPSA. 5. It's a natural progression in USPSA growth. 6. It's a numbers game. The more involved the greater our political clout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I'm all for accepting more shooters, but how is the vis part of DVC accounted for in the 22 rim fire division? Specifically, will there be sufficient momentum in the fired bullets to make steel targets fall? And then there is the aversion of .22 shooters to dry firing their guns. When a shooter is given the "If clear, hammer down and holster", will the competitor be DQ'd if they refuse to follow reasonable directions from a Match Official? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddler Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Good idea but how would you get steel to fall? D, V and sometimes C. I'm being a smartass but if there were a rimfire division I'd have started shooting years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) If we made a rimfire division in USPSA, then the principle of USPSA would have to change from DVC to DC...removing the power from the equation. edit to add: dang I'm a slow typer. Edited December 9, 2011 by Mark R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I know its my first post an all... But I completely agree. What could it hurt? .22s are a lot of fun in their own right, and the speed boundaries could really be pushed. It would also give people a less expensive alternative if they want to try the sport. The only problem I could see is having to taylor stages around a .22. Obviously no poppers or reactive plates could be included. No stars, no polish racks. AND sometimes those tiny little holes are hard to find in cardboard. Hmm, on second thought I'm not real sure how well it would work out. Maybe we should save the rimfires for blazing through steel challenge plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I wonder how they run their Rimfire Tactical matches at Rio Salado? It seems those folks are already piloting a Rimfire program for the rest of the country. We run (or try to run depending on the weather) a Rimfire steel match with pistols and rifles. It is an awesome good time. My daughter just got her .22 Sig and she loves shooting it. Rimfire is a great expansion for our sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 It's really quite simple. Your right, it ain't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker88 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Yup, finding and taping .22 cal holes on paper is tough. A couple of new shooters were shooting .22's in our club's indoor practice shoot and scoring/taping takes a little more time. It looked a lot of fun, though. I would shoot in the division if there was one. Edited December 9, 2011 by hiker88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unregistered Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Don't make it a Division - make it a different sport shooting USPSA/IPSC rules; a different discipline/entity like SC is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Clubs really ought to be running Steel Challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Clubs really ought to be running Steel Challenge. Much better venue for .22s A USPSA match would have to be setup just for .22 rimfire.. can you think how light the steel would have to be set for.. and in the wind.. it would be a nightmare. But, taping paper for 22s is an issue? - lol.. I think all the 3 Gunners shooting .223 would disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Would you have as many divisions for .22's as Steel Challenge does? 6 rd revolver, 10 round revolver, pistols and then add optics to each, that's 6 new divisions. How about holstering? From what I've seen, most folks don't have holsters for their Rugers and Buckmarks, they pull them out of bags, at least at the steel challenge matches I've been to. Anyone sell mag pouches for .22 mags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Clubs really ought to be running Steel Challenge. Yep, to bad our club is anti-steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I think we should have a subgun division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 After reading some posts above, it does sound like it's better to start a new discipline, rather than just add another division. I can see people complaining that by having only one .22 division there will be an arms race because people shooting a plain old iron sights with 10 rounds in their magazine would feel like they have to upgrade guns to something that holds 30 rounds, has optics and a big barrel weight at the end of the gun. Having a new discipline will allow for more divisions to set a more level playing field, and any steel activators would be setup appropriately to accommodate .22's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 .22 pistols - the gateway drug for many an IPSC shooter. Concur with the intention, not sure about the execution. I also agree that SC shooting is a better format for .22s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooting for M Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I agree on the steel. We started over a year ago, it was a decent investment for the gun club, but so far it has been the highest grossing match that is run there. We average about 22 shooters for steel, and USPSA is about 18. Steel is a much more freindly sprot to newcomers than USPSA IMO. Little or no movement and the stages are less intimidating. My initial thought was to run SCSA to help bring new shooters to USPSA, that has been a limited success but we are seeing lots of new shooters. BTW, I haven't shot this much 22LR since I was a kid! This topic has been covered a few times here before and it seemed the consencus was a local club could/should allow it for junior shooters (really junior) and for the steel just count the hits. When my son is old enough, I will try to talk to the USPSA director about the same thing. now I just have to find a holster an mag pouches. Or maybe a single stack conversion, hmmmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 One of our local guys set up a .22 rifle/pistol steel match this season. He had steel pipes, angle irons and other small goodies setting on stands. Steel count went from 30 to over 50 on the different COFs. It was a ton, ton of fun. So much so, I'm investing in $1000 worth of stuff to shoot it again this year. This may be another option rather than USPSA. I just don't see how you can translate a .22 into USPSA though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I'm all for accepting more shooters, but how is the vis part of DVC accounted for in the 22 rim fire division? Specifically, will there be sufficient momentum in the fired bullets to make steel targets fall? And then there is the aversion of .22 shooters to dry firing their guns. When a shooter is given the "If clear, hammer down and holster", will the competitor be DQ'd if they refuse to follow reasonable directions from a Match Official? Granted you cannot move a 22 into the present match structure that exists today in USPSA. Some tweaks will be needed like in steel. You can shoot steel with a 22 just not those massive pieces I've seen used. In the conceal carry match I shoot not only do we shoot our centerfire weapon but also a 22. We have shot everything from bowling pins to steel with the 22. The adjustments are frankly not that difficult to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I don't think it's a good idea to try and fit it to existing USPSA matches, but I'm all for clubs running action 22 matches and steel challenge. I shot SC with a rimfire rifle recently and had a blast. I've been thinking about trying to start a 22 rifle action match or 22 two gun. 22 steel is super cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Nothing new under the sun... We have a club that used to run .22 as a side match (USPSA style). It is easy to like the idea of it, but the devil is in the details. Having been there and done that...I would skip it for USPSA style matches. The guns don't really run well enough. And, they don't reload very well at all. Plus, you need gear (holsters and mag pouches). Pretty soon you are into very specialized stuff...which kinda defeats the purpose (and the guns still don't run). Contrast that to Steel Challenge. You get to toss your worst or 5 runs on a course of fire. It is 5 rounds (no reloads required, we start it at the low -ready, etc... Plus, there can be "alibis"...basically a reshoot due to equipment failure. When I took over as our local club's Steel Challenge match director, I increased the alibis for rimfire from one in the match to one on each stage. That really helped make it a viable format. (Yes...I know YOUR guns run...but everybody else brings stuff that really doesn't work as well as they think it will. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 . (Yes...I know YOUR guns run...but everybody else brings stuff that really doesn't work as well as they think it will. ) Well, I'm glad you put that part in. I was about to launch a hate filled diatribe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Isn't Ruger doing this already? I think they call it a rimfire challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Don't make it a Division - make it a different sport shooting USPSA/IPSC rules; a different discipline/entity like SC is. Clubs really ought to be running Steel Challenge. Much better venue for .22s A USPSA match would have to be setup just for .22 rimfire.. can you think how light the steel would have to be set for.. and in the wind.. it would be a nightmare. But, taping paper for 22s is an issue? - lol.. I think all the 3 Gunners shooting .223 would disagree Our club has a .22 Action group. They run USPSA rules but they have their own steel much lighter and sized down a bit as well. Paper targets are USPSA and the 1/4 size ones. Four divisions, Pistol and Carbine, open and iron, 10 round max as that fits nearly all .22s. It works, but it is NOT run with our USPSA Match. That will not work. We also run three steel matches a month. Two are Steel Challenge type and one is Knock Down. .22s are welcome there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Nothing new under the sun... We have a club that used to run .22 as a side match (USPSA style). It is easy to like the idea of it, but the devil is in the details. Having been there and done that...I would skip it for USPSA style matches. The guns don't really run well enough. And, they don't reload very well at all. Plus, you need gear (holsters and mag pouches). Pretty soon you are into very specialized stuff...which kinda defeats the purpose (and the guns still don't run). Contrast that to Steel Challenge. You get to toss your worst or 5 runs on a course of fire. It is 5 rounds (no reloads required, we start it at the low -ready, etc... Plus, there can be "alibis"...basically a reshoot due to equipment failure. When I took over as our local club's Steel Challenge match director, I increased the alibis for rimfire from one in the match to one on each stage. That really helped make it a viable format. (Yes...I know YOUR guns run...but everybody else brings stuff that really doesn't work as well as they think it will. ) You can find excuses not to do it or you can find reasons to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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