Expanding the sport

[ddpenn]

I started shooting USPSA about 11 months ago. The first matches about 60 people showed up. Registrations have since expanded to 80 + people showing up unless a major match is being held elsewhere.

The club members that run the matches would only print about 65 sheets for registration then start yelling about how hard it is to run off another 10 sheets and eventually send shooters home. As people tend to carpool to the events this led to funny situations where half of a carpool would make it into the match and the other half would get turned away.

Now all of the clubs in my area have mandatory pre-registration which makes it nearly impossible for me to participate due to the irregular and unpredictable hours I have to work.

I keep reading about how there is a drive to enroll more members and grow the sport, however from what I have seen the USPSA has not adequately incentivized the clubs to want to bring in more shooters.

I would be interested to hear from people that may have a better understanding of how matches are organized and the fee structure which clubs collect. It seems that there should be some way to actually encourage clubs to want people to show up and shoot.

[Flexmoney]

Most matches are run by volunteers.

And, you have a physical limit on the space available to run stages.

Best thing...start a new club in the area!

[rmerritt]

We avg about 20-25 shooters per match, we run off different colored score sheets, each color matches each stage discription. then we always have 15 generic score sheets in case we get extra. for what its wirth. Ray

[Skydiver]

Some clubs would envy your club to have your problem of too many people showing up. Flex's suggestion of starting a new club is one way of doing things.

A spin off on that idea is to have one range, but alternating weekends ala Gold and Blue teams, and have some kind of system to figure out how to partition volunteers and shooters between those two weekends so that you'll still have enough critical mass to keep the matches running. If you are really fancy, have both Gold and Blue teams shoot the same stages so that people can still do comparisons between any buddies that maybe split up by the partitioning. Almost like a postal match. :-) Unfortunately, unless you have some way of arranging things, you may end up with Gold always doing the stage setups, and Blue always doing the teardowns. Not always equitable distribution of work.

[Dwain C. Baer]

Just a thought, but perhaps offering a match fee discount for those that actually help the squad at each stage might work...

[steel1212]

If you have 80 people shooting a match you should have at least 40 that show up at setup time right? The stages should go up fast and efficiently. With that many people you should be able to alternate who does scores on what weekend right? You should have tons of ROs right? See my point? That club probably is like the rest of the clubs that have about 10-15 regulars that do ALL the work. Like Flex said this is a volunteer sport. Want the club to shoot 80 people through then get more people to help out. I know the little club outside of cinncinatti has had 80 people shoot a local before and they turned NOBODY away. Sure it makes for a long day but it also SHOULD make it hard for people to paste a target as in there are 15-20 people on a squad.

IN THE END VOLUNTEER YOUR HELP!

[EkuJustice]

Been on that squad in ohio. Even though it was a large squad it went fast because the work got done. Did everyone paste every time nope mainly because there were more workers than targets. Walk down paste your couple targets and come back Plenty of time to load mags etc. One advantage of the Lexington squad. Down time kept to a minimum between shooters because people work and help reset.

[ddpenn]

I wasnt talking bad about the match directors. I appreciate all their effort and show my appreciation by showing up a couple hours early and setting up and staying a couple hours late to haul trash.

I think the real issue is that there seems to be a disconnect between the national membership drive and the burden it places on the local clubs.

Do the clubs have any financial incentive to have more shooters, by this I mean does having more shooters or recruiting new shooters bring in any extra money to cover wear and tear on the props etc.

[Schutzenmeister]

I wasnt talking bad about the match directors. I appreciate all their effort and show my appreciation by showing up a couple hours early and setting up and staying a couple hours late to haul trash.

I think the real issue is that there seems to be a disconnect between the national membership drive and the burden it places on the local clubs.

Do the clubs have any financial incentive to have more shooters, by this I mean does having more shooters or recruiting new shooters bring in any extra money to cover wear and tear on the props etc.

Yeah ... The more shooters you have at a match the more money you take in to run the matches with. Only a small portion goes to USPSA.

I have shot in one or two towns where they have the "problem" of too many shooters. It's rare, but it does happen on occasion. What you need to remember is, that even with the best squads in the world and pushing as hard as you can, there is only so much time in a day to get xx number of shooters through y number of stages. At SOME point you simply run out of room and time to efficiently operate the match. It sounds like your local club has determined that number to be 80.

As for the "Blue and Gold" suggestion previously submitted ... Not a bad idea on the whole, but instead of two different weekends, try Saturday and Sunday of the same weekend. (You might want to only let folks register for ONE day, or you defeat the purpose!) Same amount of set up and tear down as a one day match, but now you can get twice the number of people through. Just a thought.

[kevin c]

As for the "Blue and Gold" suggestion previously submitted ... Not a bad idea on the whole, but instead of two different weekends, try Saturday and Sunday of the same weekend. (You might want to only let folks register for ONE day, or you defeat the purpose!) Same amount of set up and tear down as a one day match, but now you can get twice the number of people through. Just a thought.

That's an interesting idea.

It would be easiest on a dedicated range, though, one where the props can safely be left out.

Basically, if you had everybody from the first and second days scored together, you're talking about a two day match? Or are you talking about two separate but identical matches?

[Skydiver]

Probably easiest on the stats people making it a 2 day match.

It'll also quickly answer the two questions:

1) One person wants to shoot both days, but in potentially in different divisions. Best answer is to say no since the point was to reduce the number of people, but if they insist and it's a level I, you can point out that their second entry is for no score as per the rule book.

2) A person gets DQ'd on the first day and wants to come back to try again the next day. If it's a single match, they are still DQ'd. If it's two separate matches, then technically they are allowed to compete.

[sdm74]

I thank god for pre registration. I don't think its fun shooting on squads of 15 people.

[mcb389]

Pre-registration is the only way to manage shooter numbers.

[Jim Norman]

We run 6-8 stages at our monthly match. Recently we've had north of 90 shooters. Our squad sheets allow us 1 per squad and 7 squads (one squad per pit) so 105 is our theoretical maximum. We do have pre-registration and we score using Stage Score on Palms. All the pre-regs are entered by name and division and we then allow for a number of walk-on shooters. This allows us to accommodate both the plan ahead types and those that can't. Set up takes about 2 to 2-1/2 hours tear down about an hour or so. Daylight is our biggest constraint. As winter approaches we can wind up tearing down by head lights!

Sound a little like the club you are shooting at needs some assistance in the match management area. If they get 80 plus, but are only running off 65 sheets the simple answer is to run off 10 sheets. Covers errors, walk-ons, extra classifiers and any oher reason you might need an additional sheet. The cost of the toner and paper is really insignificant. Maybe they could use more bodies helping to build to get the match starte closer to one time, or maybe hanging around after to tear it all down.

If they aren't asking people to help, then people need to step up and ask how to help. A small group of dedicated people from the club may just be tired of doing all the work and watching the large majority of shooters fire their last shot and go home while they have a couple hours of work. The more shooters they have showing up the longer the match will run which makes their dinner time that much later.

[West Texas Granny]

I started shooting USPSA about 11 months ago. The first matches about 60 people showed up. Registrations have since expanded to 80 + people showing up unless a major match is being held elsewhere.

The club members that run the matches would only print about 65 sheets for registration then start yelling about how hard it is to run off another 10 sheets and eventually send shooters home. As people tend to carpool to the events this led to funny situations where half of a carpool would make it into the match and the other half would get turned away.

Now all of the clubs in my area have mandatory pre-registration which makes it nearly impossible for me to participate due to the irregular and unpredictable hours I have to work.

I keep reading about how there is a drive to enroll more members and grow the sport, however from what I have seen the USPSA has not adequately incentivized the clubs to want to bring in more shooters.

I would be interested to hear from people that may have a better understanding of how matches are organized and the fee structure which clubs collect. It seems that there should be some way to actually encourage clubs to want people to show up and shoot.

based upon your statements:

Sounds like people are too lazy to make the proper preparations to hold a match. When you are too lazy to run off extra sheets and have them when needed you shouldn't be running a match in the first place. First time shooters will be turned off and go elsewhere.

[Chills1994]

To answer the OP's question about incentives, yes, kinda.

USPSA HQ hands out slots to nationals based on "mission count". The state section coordinator then hands them out.

[Gary Stevens]

To answer the OP's question about incentives, yes, kinda.

USPSA HQ hands out slots to nationals based on "mission count". The state section coordinator then hands them out.

Or you can just wait and sign up online, which IMO, cuts the legs out from under the clubs.

[spanky]

If you have 80 people shooting a match you should have at least 40 that show up at setup time right? The stages should go up fast and efficiently. With that many people you should be able to alternate who does scores on what weekend right? You should have tons of ROs right? See my point? That club probably is like the rest of the clubs that have about 10-15 regulars that do ALL the work. Like Flex said this is a volunteer sport. Want the club to shoot 80 people through then get more people to help out. I know the little club outside of cinncinatti has had 80 people shoot a local before and they turned NOBODY away. Sure it makes for a long day but it also SHOULD make it hard for people to paste a target as in there are 15-20 people on a squad.

IN THE END VOLUNTEER YOUR HELP!

Exactly. We average 50-75 shooters lately and we set up the day before and it is the same group of 5-8 people who set up and it's the same group of 2-5 people who show up early on the match day to hang targets. I'm not saying what they have done is right but it's not as easy as some people expect.

[Chills1994]

To answer the OP's question about incentives, yes, kinda.

USPSA HQ hands out slots to nationals based on "mission count". The state section coordinator then hands them out.

Or you can just wait and sign up online, which IMO, cuts the legs out from under the clubs.

I have never tried to sign up online. As a fairly new MD, I don't mind having my legs cut out from under me.

It makes it less political and less about who you know or if you're buddy buddy with the section coordinator.

[Nik Habicht]

It makes it less political and less about who you know or if you're buddy buddy with the section coordinator.

In our section we have bylaws that govern slot distribution. Simply put, the slots belong to the clubs, and are disbursed based on activity.....

I know other sections may disburse by way of a section championship. If "buddy-buddy with the SC" is a problem, rewrite the bylaws, or vote the SC out of office at the next election.....

There are options....

[Chills1994]

Slight thread drift ahead... We recently put on a 7 stage local match for $15. We had 46 shooters. The highest yet. So I have to wonder at what point with so many shooters showing up do you add another stage to shrink the squad size down???

Or another idea I had was to have staggered start times. If you have the shooters emailing you to pre-register, you could just email them back and say like " you, you, and you are on squads 1,2,3,and 4 respectively. All the odd numbered squads start shooting at 9 AM. All the even numbered squads start at 11 AM. "

Depending on your range/bay layout, doing it that way you might end up with an empty bay/stage between the squads. If a squad finishes up on a stage, then they move onto the next stage that is empty, so there is no log jam at a particular stage.

[Flexmoney]

Slight thread drift ahead... We recently put on a 7 stage local match for $15. We had 46 shooters. The highest yet. So I have to wonder at what point with so many shooters showing up do you add another stage to shrink the squad size down???

You'll like this...it's just math.

Design your stages such they they turn shooters in about the same time (a squads time on any stage is equal to any other squads time on any other stage).

Figure 3 minutes per shooter (your turn time may vary, depending on stage design/efficiency). Multiply that by the number of shooters on a squad (you did keep your squad sizes equal, right?). Add +5 minutes for travel between stages, and +5 more for walk-through time. That is your time for a squad on a stage. Multiply by the number of stages you have.

[Chills1994]

Flexmoney wrote:

You'll like this...it's just math.

That did really make me laugh out loud when I read that.

So, hmmn...okay..., in your experience, what is an ideal squad size for a local/club match?

[Flexmoney]

8-12

[Nik Habicht]

Chills,

minimum eight people, unless you have dedicated staff. Figure: 1 RO, 1 Clipboard, 1 Shooting, 1 on deck (walkthrough during reset), 1 getting his gear back together after shooting -- that leaves three to reset the stage....

9-10 might actually be better.....

When I was doing squadding for a club match, I added a squad everytime we completed another multiple of eight. 15 shooters -- 1 squad. 16-23 shooters =2, 24-31 = 3, 32-39=4, etc...

If I was exceeding 12/squad, I'd want to add a stage....

Anything over 12 -- you need someone on the squad to play wrangler: Someone who's not on the timer or clipboard, but who can charge of the taping and setting crew, and to make sure as he walks back uprange that the range is clear. Someone who can get the brassers off the range, and let the RO know that the stage is reset perfectly, and that shooting can proceed....