evild Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I usually shoot weaver, not usually, have shot weaver since 1988, so, I always shoot weaver. I tried isosceles today with mixed results. I scored well on paper but couldn't hit the steel. Not sure I want to try to convert or stay weaver. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 If you will check out a lot of the videos, you will see that a large part of the shooters use some combination of the two. Try different combinations until you find the one that for you will let the recoil bring you sights right back on the target. It is easy to say, and takes a lot of practice both dry firing and live firing, to get to the point where you just get to that point without thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Almost everybody who tries to alter part of their established technique will go through a period of poorer performance until they get to the point where the new technique can be applied naturally without having to be forced or thought about. Before you burn in those several thousand repetitions you might want to have an experienced action shooter, perhaps a professional instructor, check the technique you're trying to adapt (there are aspects of the "isosceles" stance that vary from person to person depending on anatomy, physical strength, etc, that can be pointed out and tweaked by somebody in the know. This can help shorten your learning curve). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perjohn Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I shot weaver until I really got into competitive shooting, but made an effort to switch to isosceles shortly after I began competing. It was difficult at first to adapt, but I think it's worth it. Weaver just seems to tense everything up, instead of letting the shooter relax. +1 on having an experienced shooter check out your form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I learned to shoot weaver in the Marines and dropped it as soon as I started shooting competition, if your worred about the targets shooting back at you and you want to blade into the target than go ahead and shoot weaver, but it will slow you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10ring Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 When you fire a shot, in your preferred stance/grip, does the front sight return to the notch in the rear sight? That's one of the main things we desire. The other thing is, does different amounts of pressure or tension cause the shot to impact in a different place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I usually shoot weaver, not usually, have shot weaver since 1988, so, I always shoot weaver. I tried isosceles today with mixed results. I scored well on paper but couldn't hit the steel. Not sure I want to try to convert or stay weaver. Thoughts? In general, when making any sort of serious change, don't judge the results until you have committed to at least 3 weeks of hardcore practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evild Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Good advice from all, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 It will take a while I believe. When I was shooting 5000rds. a year it took me 6 months(including a little dryfire) to get the feel of it. You'll be glad you switched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) I learned a while back not to try to convert the weaver guys. Once you get sucked into the sport and start improving and getting footwork and positioning down... you'll suddenly wake up one day to realize the weaver factor went away all on it's own. Edited September 3, 2011 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P. Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I learned a while back not to try to convert the weaver guys. Once you get sucked into the sport and start improving and getting footwork and positioning down... you'll suddenly wake up one day to realize the weaver factor went away all on it's own. + 1 to this. Weaver tends to want the shooter to be static. If you have to move/twist/etc you almost can't from a weaver stance. For those of us who learned to be comfortable shooting from a Weaver stance, moving to modified Weaver (Chapman) is a big change. From there I noticed that if I "shift" a bit more toward ISO I am less tense and am able to move a bit easier. This has helped my groups and speed and follow ups and... a HUGE amount. It's still not ISO (yet) but it's definitely not Mod Weaver either and I didn't have to "learn" a new technique or go through any adjustment period to get here. When I was ready, I made the stance change and saw immediate improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDunn Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I learned a while back not to try to convert the weaver guys. Once you get sucked into the sport and start improving and getting footwork and positioning down... you'll suddenly wake up one day to realize the weaver factor went away all on it's own. i picked up on this. when i first started practical shooting i tried to convert over from weaver. the results were terrible. i was taught weaver when i was 6 years old and had been shooting that way ever since. so i switched back to weaver and my scores went up to where i thought they should have been(atleast way better than with iso). but after a year of this sport while im shooting i have noticed that i am barely ever in weaver and have found my self in iso more and more. Edited September 9, 2011 by RDunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jualdeaux Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I learned a while back not to try to convert the weaver guys. Once you get sucked into the sport and start improving and getting footwork and positioning down... you'll suddenly wake up one day to realize the weaver factor went away all on it's own. Weaver tends to want the shooter to be static. If you have to move/twist/etc you almost can't from a weaver stance. I was in the same boat. I shot weaver and resisted the change, even in a training class, but then I started shooting IDPA, and now USPSA. Weaver is okay if you aren't moving and engaging multiple targets but try to stay in a weaver stance when you have to swing from one side to the other on the move. I almost guarantee you can't remain in that weaver stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evild Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) Shot my local match last Sunday using for lack of a better term, weak Isosceles, kind of a cross between isosceles and modified weaver, I came in 5th out of 15 and was first in my classification. I like it. Hard to see but any critique would be appreciated, I didn't leave the popper, the guy stopped recoding becasue he though it was finished, just had a mag that didn't drop. Edited October 1, 2011 by evild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Why didn't you load coming into the last position while moving? Would have eliminated a standing reload. Also if you're "double tapping" the targets and your second shot is not aimed every bit as exquisitely as the first, you're forming a very bad habit. Edited October 10, 2011 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Use the whole shooting box. The natural tendency is to crowd the targets, which often results in you hugging barriers and sticking your arms all the way into ports. Not only does it slow you way down, you also run the risk of smashing into something. You really had to focus to not break the 180 after the first array, and being so close to the barricade really complicated the issue. I'd be interested to know what your hits looked like on that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyburg Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) I usually shoot weaver, not usually, have shot weaver since 1988, so, I always shoot weaver. I tried isosceles today with mixed results. I scored well on paper but couldn't hit the steel. Not sure I want to try to convert or stay weaver. Thoughts? The next time you watch one of the videos of a police officer that is involved in a shooting pay attention to how they first start out then what they actually do. You will notice a lot of them start out in a weaver stance, but as soon as the shooting starts they change to an isosceles as they move either toward or away from the suspect. the two troopers stopping the SUV comes to mind. Also, video tape some of your training and watch how you move from target to target while shooting. Edited October 11, 2011 by cyburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evild Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Why didn't you load coming into the last position while moving? Would have eliminated a standing reload. Also if you're "double tapping" the targets and your second shot is not aimed every bit as exquisitely as the first, you're forming a very bad habit. Not sure why I didn't reload on the move, probably lost my game plan in my head. Use the whole shooting box. The natural tendency is to crowd the targets, which often results in you hugging barriers and sticking your arms all the way into ports. Not only does it slow you way down, you also run the risk of smashing into something. You really had to focus to not break the 180 after the first array, and being so close to the barricade really complicated the issue. I'd be interested to know what your hits looked like on that stage. Good advice, thanks, my hits were A-22, B- 2, C-7, D-2 and 1 mike I took on the very first target that i went back to shoot but shot the wrong one , time was 31.53. This months (October) match will mark my 1 year anniversary playing this game and I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstick0000 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Isosceles is taught and used by military, police departments, and most of the top pro shooters. It has been proven time and time again on video that most people who are in a fire fight will revert to isosceles when in a fire fight. Don't forget the mobility factor, it is much easier to move in all directions when in the isosceles stance. Im sure the net is full of comparisons of the two stances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Here's what I see. Get a little lower and spread your legs a little more apart. Quit thinking stance. Start DOING what is more efficient and allows you to move into/out of positions quicker. You are hung up on what I'd call a Non Starter. Basically it's not important. Not trying to be antagonistic. Ask: what determines my position? There is a whole thread on the Origination of Index/NPA, it's great. Eye opening. Watching your vid demonstrates that you got some good skills! Don't let your stance dictate your shooting. Let the shooting dictate the stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polizei1 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) I learned to shoot weaver in the Marines and dropped it as soon as I started shooting competition, if your worred about the targets shooting back at you and you want to blade into the target than go ahead and shoot weaver, but it will slow you down. Just a side note...not sure when you were in, but that is NOT what we are taught now (besides table 1 while standing). Table 2 is done all isosceles and pistol is also taught this way now. Weaver makes no sense (in combat) because while you might be "limiting" your body, your exposing your vitals, where there isn't any protection. But, everyone knows the military is 20 years behind. I guess they finally are understanding why. It's better to be shot in your flak and live, than to be shot under your armpit and die. Edited October 20, 2011 by polizei1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupie Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I lead the transition team at Cherry Point when we had to teach the Staff NCO's and officers how to change from the isosceles and the 45 to the weaver and the beretta. Somewhere around 1988. It was a challange to run everyone through a 3 day course and get them qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evild Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Here's what I see. Get a little lower and spread your legs a little more apart. Quit thinking stance. Start DOING what is more efficient and allows you to move into/out of positions quicker. You are hung up on what I'd call a Non Starter. Basically it's not important. Not trying to be antagonistic. Ask: what determines my position? There is a whole thread on the Origination of Index/NPA, it's great. Eye opening. Watching your vid demonstrates that you got some good skills! Don't let your stance dictate your shooting. Let the shooting dictate the stance. Thanks, I will look for that thread, I have no idea what you mean by "Non Starter"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I lead the transition team at Cherry Point when we had to teach the Staff NCO's and officers how to change from the isosceles and the 45 to the weaver and the beretta. Somewhere around 1988. It was a challange to run everyone through a 3 day course and get them qualified. That's kind of funny, that's only a few years after the weaver really started its fade from competition use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 evild: are you going to be at this months Tonawanda match? If so do you shoot morning or afternoon? If you shoot afternoon I'll squad with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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