220 gr. in .40 S&W with a "normal" gun

[Warhammer4k]

I have a healthy supply of 220 gr. plated bullets in .40/10mm caliber. I can't make them work in my Glock 20, so I thought I might work up some loads in .40 S&W to shoot in my S&W M&P. But almost as quickly, I decided it was a Bad Idea.

How about you? Are 220 gr. bullets in any way usable in ordinary .40 S&W guns? Have you shot 220 gr. bullets in a S&W M&P, Glock, or other "normal" .40 S&W gun?

Last year, I tracked down some .40 S&W data worked up by some IPSC shooters. Every single load lists a cartridge overall length (COAL) of at least 1.170" for 220 gr. bullets. Most of them are 1.200". That's too long for the magazine of a .40 S&W M&P; the round would have almost no "slop" space of the kind needed to ensure feeding. Apparently, it works in the 1911-pattern guns that many of the "high speed" guys use, because their magazines are longer fore-and-aft.

I'm not sure it would be smart to seat a 220 gr. bullet at 1.135 to 1.155" COAL, the range where I load lighter bullets (e.g. 170 gr. cast lead) for my M&P. Because the 220 gr., .40 cal bullets are so darn long, there would hardly be any room left in the case for powder. Some powders do not react well to either too much or too little empty case volume.

[CocoBolo]

I have a healthy supply of 220 gr. plated bullets in .40/10mm caliber. I can't make them work in my Glock 20, so I thought I might work up some loads in .40 S&W to shoot in my S&W M&P. But almost as quickly, I decided it was a Bad Idea.

How about you? Are 220 gr. bullets in any way usable in ordinary .40 S&W guns? Have you shot 220 gr. bullets in a S&W M&P, Glock, or other "normal" .40 S&W gun?

Last year, I tracked down some .40 S&W data worked up by some IPSC shooters. Every single load lists a cartridge overall length (COAL) of at least 1.170" for 220 gr. bullets. Most of them are 1.200". That's too long for the magazine of a .40 S&W M&P; the round would have almost no "slop" space of the kind needed to ensure feeding. Apparently, it works in the 1911-pattern guns that many of the "high speed" guys use, because their magazines are longer fore-and-aft.

I'm not sure it would be smart to seat a 220 gr. bullet at 1.135 to 1.155" COAL, the range where I load lighter bullets (e.g. 170 gr. cast lead) for my M&P. Because the 220 gr., .40 cal bullets are so darn long, there would hardly be any room left in the case for powder. Some powders do not react well to either too much or too little empty case volume.

Ok tupperware shooter, my STI Edge is the most normal USPSA Limited gun there is, problably more shot in Limited Division than any other gun. I think you could be ok with a shorter OAL but you will need to adjust the powder down a few .10 and then work it up over a crono. You could go with a little slower powder like WST, IMR7625, or 3N37 if you get pressure signs before you get to power factor. Switching from N320 to N340 is an example, definately not N310, or Clays.

Just kidding about the tupperware

[Puma]

If you have a Glock or MP discard the 200 and/or 220. These heavier loads work much better in an STI, SV etc. 220's are amost impossible to get these days. A friend of mine who has been loading for years swears by the 220's. Where did you get them ?

Pumagsd@yahoo.com

[Warhammer4k]

If you have a Glock or MP discard the 200 and/or 220. These heavier loads work much better in an STI, SV etc. 220's are amost impossible to get these days. A friend of mine who has been loading for years swears by the 220's. Where did you get them ?

Pumagsd@yahoo.com

They are West Coast Bullet brand, which I gather is a company that went out of business and was resurrected as X-Treme Bullets. X-Treme currently sells .400" diameter bullets in both plated 200 and 220 grain varieties, as well as cast lead 200 grain flavor.

As for how I got them: A guy who used to be into IPSC/action type shooting, but got out of the .40 S&W/10mm game, was cleaning out his garage. He had a whole crapton of them, around 9000. I bought the lot last summer for a pretty good price.

I'm not happy that they can't be made to work in my Glock 20, but they work fine in my S&W 1006, 1066, and 610, so I suppose that's how I'll use them.

[2147]

What's the issue with the G-20??

[sargenv]

I tried 220's in my 610 and did not get good accuracy with them.. though it might have been a case where they were not being pushed fast enough to get them stabilized.. if I don't push my longer RN's in the 190 gr range to at least 775 fps, they keyhole.. This is out of a 6.5" 610.

[highxj]

I think the first thing I'd do is make up a dummy round seated to a useable length, and make sure the base of that long bullet doesn't bulge the case too much to affect chambering...

[ParaGunner]

If you have a Glock or MP discard the 200 and/or 220. These heavier loads work much better in an STI, SV etc. 220's are amost impossible to get these days. A friend of mine who has been loading for years swears by the 220's. Where did you get them ?

Pumagsd@yahoo.com

SNS Casting and the Bullet works offer 220gr bullets right now.

[Warhammer4k]

I tried 220's in my 610 and did not get good accuracy with them.. though it might have been a case where they were not being pushed fast enough to get them stabilized.. if I don't push my longer RN's in the 190 gr range to at least 775 fps, they keyhole.. This is out of a 6.5" 610.

I have exactly the same type of 610. Haven't shot the 220 gr. bullets in it much, not enough to notice any keyholing. But, none of my loads have been as mild as that. All have developed at least 900 ft/s.

I haven't seen any keyholing out of the Glock 20 w/the 220 gr. bullets, but my focus has been on getting it to run reliably. So far that has proved elusive.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Warhammer4k

[Warhammer4k]

I think the first thing I'd do is make up a dummy round seated to a useable length, and make sure the base of that long bullet doesn't bulge the case too much to affect chambering...

That's one reason I don't think I will have much luck trying to stuff a 220 gr. bullet in a .40 S&W case. An excerpt on the topic:

Speer Rifle & Pistol Reloading Manual No. 12 states:

We are sometimes asked for loading data for the Speer 200 grain TMJ in the 40 S&W. When seated to the proper cartridge overall length, the bullet heel is so deep in the case that sidewall bulges often develop with failures to feed or chamber. Velocities are also quite low, so we don't recommend this bullet for the 40 S&W.

[Warhammer4k]

What's the issue with the G-20??

It simply won't feed reloads made with the 220 gr. bullets. They constantly jam on the way in the chamber, despite dropping loosely into a 10mm case gage and having no features that should cause them to hang up. We've thrashed the issue to death on a couple of other forums. Here's one such discussion: Glock 20 won't feed reloads

I tried a lot of things to get them to feed in the G20. I tried OALs from 1.270" to super-short (1.235"). They still wouldn't work.

It's likely a problem of slide velocity. Some people have had good results with a stiffer recoil spring. But, I don't want to buy a replacement recoil spring and guide rod and then still have it not work. Maybe later I'll give that a try, but right now I'm trying to find solutions that don't involve buying more stuff.

[Flexmoney]

You can use the guide rod forever, and springs are cheap compared to bullets wasted.

Heck, you could use the standard guide rod and just take the retainer off.

I'd likely save those 220g bullets for the other guns and get some bullets that are more standard for your application. (For 40, 180g from Zero, Montana Gold, etc.)

[Warhammer4k]

Fortunately, I do have other bullets that work great in the Glock 20. I also load 170 gr. cast lead to about 1200 ft/s. The G20 runs like a top. I use a Lone Wolf replacement barrel not only to avoid the leading question, but also because it is easier on the brass than the original Glock barrel.

The plastic guide rod on Glocks always struck me as cheesy. It works as long as you don't run an insane amount of ammo through the gun in a short time (they've melted in "torture tests"), but it feels cheap. Money's kind of tight right now, so I'm trying to work with supplies and parts already at hand. Maybe later I'll put in a nice metal guide rod & stronger spring.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Warhammer4k

[pjb45]

We got a guy in our club that shots 220 in 40S&W, but it is an STI. The deal with length is that is the more it shortens the more velocity. Will you Glock handle the longer than factory spec?

Are you going to load a few and check for pressure signs?

[2 para's]

I used to use 220gr west coast bullets 4.1 grs of WST loaded to a lenght of 1.185. these are the softest shooting loads I have ever shot in 40 cal,however the problem with and why I stopped useing them is that the copper plating would shear off and cause the bullets to tumble,needless to say they were not accurate.this seemed to be the same problem with the 200's and 180's from west coast also. If I was going to use 220's again I would use straight lead SNS Casting makes a good 220. but like said in a previous reply i would save em for a gun that you can load the bullets out longer cause thats what needs to be.

Edited April 20, 2011 by 2 para's

[Matt Cheely]

More than a few limited guns have been blown up with 220gr bullets...

[perrysho]

Go to Page 2 This Thread !

Heavy lead in .40

Big doscussion on heavy bullets in .40 S & W.

I have been shooting some 200 gr The Bullet Works RNFP plated over 3.6 gr WST, OAL 1.18" inch, nice very lil muzzle flip, soft recoil.

If you load a lil long use an EGW or Wilson or Dillon cartridge checker and/or the gun barrel.

If you play around with heavy bullets and expermental loads, buy/borrow a chrono, don't do dumb sheit.

Perry

Edited April 22, 2011 by perrysho

[Glockman1000]

I used to have the brand of bullet years ago, the 220 West Coast bullet. I used to load them with 3.5 grains of WW231 and shoot it in a G24 with a Bar-Sto barrel. I never had an issue, but stopped using it when a fellow shooter had a case blow out in his G24 with a factory barrel with the same load. I went back to home cast 180's. We had to load at 1.130. for the 175 power factor at the time. One of the things I noticed was how soft these bullets were, if you crimped them a little much and pulled them out they would leave a pretty defined ring where they were crimped. Didn't want to chance having a blow out myself so I sold them off.

[Sgt Smith]

I played around trying to make this work in a Glock 22 and Glock 35. Using WST and Westcoast 220 grain bullets I was able to make the guns run but not make major without the beginnings of pressure signs. Bottom line 180s and even 200s give you a much greater margin of error/safety. I run my 220s in a 10mm, works really well.

[Joe4d]

Yeh yeh yeh Zombie thread,, but fixing to click submit on an order of 220 SNS coated .40
Gun 6 inch STI 40, so can load fairly long.
Targets are pins, having barrel to frame fit issues on my Caspian, box o parts 45 gun. to cheap to buy another 45. Matches be a coming,,, Soooo
Last match did well with 200 gr Mo bullets over 5.4 grs of BE 86,  1.145 OAL, 980 fps 196 pf, looking to go 220... was long as I could go with that ogive.
So thinking 220's, no big deal about power factor all about knocking pins,, rule set is pins on front of 4 foot table.
Mr Cheely mentioned blown up limited guns,,, obviously dont want that.
Any body run lots of 220's with maybe slower powders care to share their long loaded data ?
 

[Dl33]

Does anybody have a general idea of what kpa pressures a 200 or 220 grain .40/10mm rounds loaded for minimal gas expansion pressure?  My 9mm silencer actually has slightly larger than 10mm channels, and I thought maybe that a .40 or 10mm loaded heavy with sub sonics speeds would work fine through the can just like the 200 and 208 grain .300 aac blackout ammo I use with it runs flawlessly.   I don't know if .40 SW is common in commercial loads for subsonic suppressor use but the issue is whether it stays below a max of 40k kPa.  I figured handloading the ammo it may be possible but I'm not experienced with handloading personally.