Ron Ankeny Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 OK, I said I'd get back with a couple of graphics that depict my pet peeve, the over abundance of hoser stages. First off, both of these samples are 24 round courses with 8 rounds here, 8 rounds there, and 8 rounds over yonder. Yeah, I know that is unimaginative but myself and a couple of other guys do all the work (building props, administrative duties, etc.) so we only allocate 90 minutes for set up. I go out the night before and get things ready. We have two bays, each is 25 yards wide and 35 yards long. We put a "field course" and a speed shoot/standards in bay one, a classifier and a "field course" in bay 2. Our club is only 2 1/2 years old and most of the guys shoot 10 round guns, so 8-8-8 has been the rule. The image above is a typical start in box A hoser course. People seem to like these types of courses, but for me the novelty has worn off and I think they suck. One more trip to the storage shed for some black tape, a can of spray paint, and a couple of props yields the following: It seems like most of the forum members are under the faulty assumption that all I want is distance. That's not true. Because of bay restrictions, I seldom place a target beyond 15 yards. FWIW, we shot this COF at our last match and folks seemed to like it a lot. The two targets in front of the table were at an angle to the ground and were low, but you could shoot them either standing or seated. In the first array alone the targets were at three different heights. This course offered a challenge to the better shooters, but was easily completed without undue penalty by the newbies. Which stage would you prefer to shoot? My next installment will be how to spice up a speed shoot, lol. This stage was an adaptation of a stage from stageexchange.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Ron The first one looks like some of the classifiers...except it is 8-8-8 not 6-6 I can see how shooting those kind of courses might get old, but the second one is pretty imaginative for close quarters and short bays.. Good goin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 No doubt, stage 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Stage 2 for sure. One good way to "de-hose" a stage it to put in some no-shoots and steel. It is still a fast stage, but no-shoots prevent people from simply pointing the gun and pulling the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Excellent Ron! Perfect example of hoser and not-hoser stages. I've shot something very similar to the first stage too many times-- with close in targets, you HF somewhere north of 15.. (Hoser Alert!) However.. for all you aspiring stage designers, look closely at the second stage-- you don't need to make the shots super-tough to challenge the top shooters- Give them multiple options, positions and set-ups and they'll sort themselves out on points and efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Ron Ankeny's new name: "The DeHoser" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hey Ron, Remove 2 shots in each target array and you have a heck of a good IDPA stage too. Bill Nesbitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwell Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I'm one of the "other" people that does not mind shooting hoser stages, but stage two would be my choice, looks like a lot more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Stage 2 you actually have to think about how to shoot. Mikey likes it. Stage 1 = snooze. Enough of those and I'd ask for my match fee back and leave. Glad I don't have to do that here in SoCal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Ron, Having a choice to shoot either stage...I would shoot them both. I see only one problem with the first stage - the box is on the left side. Our matches provide the opportunity to start from either side to accomodate lefties. This stage could be a lot of fun by adding a port or ports that puts a little stress on the shooter. The second stage design is nice but favors righties. The table and two t1-t2 could be pulled back towards the center of the stage giving the shooter the option to run right or left after engagement.....just thoughts. They always look different on match day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Ron, Yea stage 2 is great. Another thing to remember is that if you ever get tired of the hoser stages, challenge yourself. Shoot it down zero points, or even better yet shoot it with all upper A/B only. When you kick their butts that way, then your on to something. ( plus the look on their faces is priceless!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Stage 1 is an 8 second stage...tops...maybe 7.5. Stage 2 is likely in the 12's...I'd rather shoot #2 more time on the stage and there is some challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Thank you Ron - you da man. Number Two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 From my point of view, #1 is not so bad. I'm still trying to get my movement sorted out, so this stage does get me moving. As a L-10 shooter who only looks at the overall scores, I'm going to have to hit a pair of super hot reloads to have any chance of placing well in that stage. That's a couple of acceptable challenges for me. Stage #2 will be run at my match very soon. It looks fun, and the setup is still pretty simple. I feel like I'd shoot it pretty well, but it would be fun no matter the score. It's also perfect for the bay where our steel shed is located. I'll still file away stage #1 for when I get burned out and can only tolerate a few minutes setup time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I don't think that you ruined the stage, I think you made it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Stage 2 is better. For some more fun, assuming you have them, you could make the second target in the last array a swinger that swings behind the no-shoots that's activated by a one of the poppers placed in front of a no-shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hi Ron, No doubt at all, stage 2 is the preferred one for me ! Stages like stage 1 described by you are no real challenge, at least IMO. As I started training other people at our club (we don't have many IPSC shooters - yet), a few months ago, I have started building stages too. As you, I try to make an effort to make the stages interesting. For myself it's also a great learning experience BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hi Ron, starting from your own start: What about this solution for "de-hosering" the stage? It shouldn't require too much time to set it up, besides it leaves several different interpretations to the shooters, and will definitely test some skills on shooting on the move (among the barrels), shooting from crouched position and from a narrow window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I'd definitely enjoy shooting #2 more, and I might even make it a bit more difficult by making some of those end poppers "no-shoots" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve223 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Another vote for 2!! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Ron, In my neck of the woods, your stage #1 would be very rare. That being the case, I'm sure most shooters in the area would enjoy it because it's "different". When "we" design stages we try to ask ourselves, " what skills are we testing or what can I learn from shooting this stage"? That being said, I would definately agree with the masses though, and find stage #2 more interesting/fun to shoot. Regards, Todd BTW, Skywalker, very nice stage diagram! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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