only 8 PD with home made bullets

[BT Sniper]

Greatings,

Looks like quite the sight with quite the range of members. I hope to gain a lot of knowledge on competitive shooting and this looks like just the sight.

I shot my first IDPA shoot last month out here in NW Oregon. Had a pretty good time. I did not try to rush and figured I would try for accuracy. I wound up suprising myself that I was able to compete at the speed I did. Had about 20 shooters and I finished middle of the pack with lots of room for improvment but what I was really happy with was I only finshed 8 points down for the match. Had a total of 60 scored shots for the match as I remember and I fired only 5 more then needed as the last target of the match was a long one and I just emptied the clip. What made this even more rewarding was the fact I shot the entire match with 40 cal bullets I made myself from 9mm brass.

Now this is not new swaging bullets from fired brass, a few of you here may even make your own and I know others here have even seen my work.

Thought I might post a few pics of these 185 grain 40 cal bullets. For the match I shot these bullets from a full size EAA witness 40 S&W loaded to 950 fps with a good load of W-231.

These bullets are formed in dies under a good deal of pressure same way a commercial bullet is formed. The brass case and lead core is easily manipulated by just the pressure applied by a standard reloading press. As you can see the fired bullet enguaged all the lands and groves as it should have being that the formed bullet measured .400

Here is some recovered bullets from wet newspaper hit at about 950 FPS. Retained all their weight. In my development I was trying to duplicat a Hornady critical defence bullet. Turned out pretty close I think.

Loaded 40 S&W

Accuracy proved to be good enough for casual compition and maybe I'll be able to improve my scores by speeding up a bit or droping a few pounds for those of you that saw the video. Here is some targets I shot with a HyPoint 4095 at 35 yrds of hand. Wasn't really trying for accuracy but again these bullets supprised me.

Certainly has been a lot of fun this hobby of DIY bullts. I bought the dies just before the turn in our government and the begining of the ammo shortages. Though I don't shot as much as I would like it was sure nice to now I could make as many bullets as I could ever need. I welcome anyone interested to give it a try. If you can reload you can make your own. Few of you allready do.

Good shooting,

BT

[G-ManBart]

I can buy bullets cheaper than cases, and don't have to spend time forming them. It's interesting, but I don't believe many of us will spend the time to form 10-50K per year that we need. R,

[Kyle O]

It'd be a useful skill were there ever a bullet drought. I'm a tinkerer, that would be as far as I would take it.

I'll keep rolling my own, but not growing them too.

[SLM]

Before my good friend G-Man rains all over the parade, I'd like to say welcome to the best competitive shooting forum around!

I'm sure I've seen your bullets before. Cast boolits forums maybe? Nice looking but I'll admit... As a guy who shoots 9mm's exclusively when I see them all I think about is the brass I won't be reloading.

Now, if you could get Corbin to make dies to turn .22LR into .40 jackets...

[BT Sniper]

Thanks SLM,

Already looked into the useful info here and think I may be trying some new powders in the 40S&W. As for the making your own, ya it's a hobby. People get into it as much or as little as they like. Not trying to make any sales here or convert the mases. Last time the idea of a using a 9mm for a bullet came up on this board it was not looked upon in the best of light. I just wanted to show that it can be done safely and effectivly. Not to many people out there dedicated to this sort of thing but you never know. Just how much does 10-50k worth of bullets cost? I know I could look it up, MG offers pretty good bulk price that I have seen. I would imagine for those of you really serious about this sport you use new brass to load with? Ya new brass is expensive.

Well thinking about it a bit finding Ks and Ks of brass is farely easy but dang that is a lot of lead! When the EPA has their way with us it will be hard to come by but some out there have the connections. Living out here in the west it is allready difficult to come by. Save it while you can I guess.

Don't worry there SLM 9mms are easy to come by. But when I am good I can find the stuff that no one wants to reload, berdan primed and the stuff shot out of the fluted chambers, MP-5s is it? I'll have to look that one up. Had a guy send me 10 gallons of the stuff. Don't think anyone will be missing any of that.

Good shooting,

BT

Edited November 13, 2010 by BT Sniper

[toddrod]

Do not let Gman spoil your accomplishment at making these very nice looking bullets.

WELCOME!!! to this forum.

What lead bullet are you casting to make the cores? I have more time on my hands than I know what to do with and have many 9mm cases I can play with. Corbin dies?

[Joe4d]

If it was an issue of cant get bullets, conventional lead, mixed with some easily found wheel weights or solder supplies can make decent bullets, cast bullets have acounted for a hole lot of game over the years and I see no reason the right hardness shouldnt work just as well in defensive situations.

USPSA is all about innovation. I bet the first red dot tubes didnt work very well, and the first panoramic sights were probably also garbage, not to mention all the other gadjets used and adapted for shooting, many cast aside but some stick around and work so good they come into the mainstream. Kudos for the experimentation.

Ok since you are new now you get razzed,

Unless you were shooting a broomhandle mauser at the idpa match you emptied the "MAGAZINE".

a clip doesnt have a spring or follower or box, it is just that a clip,

Garands, mausers, mooncliped revolvers, use clips, some 5.56 ammo is issued in 10 round stripper clips,

[RangerTrace]

I thought that was a pretty cool idea, even if it's not cost effective. Welcome to the forum

[Intel6]

I will first say welcome Brian. Plenty of good info on this site for everyone. For a guy who's only handgun was an origial Auto Mag to now haveing a .40 handgun and starting to shoot competition I say keep it up.

I have been following Brian's adventures on another site for some time and being a person who likes to tinker and try out new projects, I have two sets of his dies and I am about to get a third. As I said in the other thread as an answer to those who said why make them when you can buy them, people would say why reload when you can buy loaded ammo.

I didn't get the dies to make my 165's for my 6" limited gun, I did get them so I could make things that you cannot buy. Tell me where I can get a 210 gr. or 225 gr. JSP or a 240 gr. JHP (yes a .40 cal 240 JHP with a cannelure in the right place) heavy loads in my 10mm? Or how about a .44 MAG JHP with a cannelure in the right location for seating the bullets long in my Ruger Redhawk? Well with these dies I can do all that and more.

In the first pic is a row of .40 bullets from L to R: Nosler 135 JHP, Federal 155 JHP from Border Patrol ammo, Montana Gold 165 JHP, my 195 JHP, 200 gr. XTP, 200 gr. MG CMJ, my 200 gr. JSP and my 240 JHP.

In the second pic is a 300 gr. .44 JHP with dual cannelures and my standard 250 gr. JHP with the cannelure set so I can load it long. Next is a .40 200 gr. JSP with a cannelure for loading in my 610 revolver and then a 195 JHP with dual cannelures for loading on both my 10mm auto and my 610 revolver.

In the 3rd pic is a batch of .40 cal 210 JSP's

In the fourth pic shows the two parts of a .44 mag bullet and then the bullet loaded in a cartridge.

Neal in AZ

[gng4life]

You know, when I get 9mm brass stuck in the cases of .40s, I thought about shooting it out. Wow, you really did it! Cool, great idea. Of course, like Gman said, doubt if many of us here will be doing it but it's a cool idea and something to play with- if time were easy to come by.

Welcome to the forum, enjoy!

Edited November 13, 2010 by gng4life

[BT Sniper]

Yep, terminology has never been my strong point, emptied the "magizine". Neither is spelling, that is probably why I became a pilot, we didn't need to know how to spell. As for the core it is cast from a simple Lee 6 cavity 125 grain .356 bullet mold. The dies are CH-4d and are very affordable compaired to corbin and others. Any caliber set can be had for under $150, as for their quality in dies well....I spent a couple years tinkering and came up with better components to make their die work much better.

You guys may be correct in the time vs. ammount of bullets needed for real competitive shooters but there is savings to be had I'm sure for those with the time. Maybe not in the common 9mm or 40 calibers where bulk rates are avialble but anything is possible. I do know it is possible to make these bullets pretty quickly in production form. I know a guy here that is able to crank out 20 per minute. Ofcourse there is a bit of time involved casting the cores and annealing the brass but again for those with a lot of time and little money it may just allow a few more shooters to enjoy a bit more shooting then otherwise may be possible.

Well thanks for the compliments and not razing me to much, competitive shooting might not be the best demographic for "growing your own" but I certainly look foward to doing a bit more shooting in this sport no matter what bullet hits the target.

BT

[JimmyZip]

I will first say welcome Brian. Plenty of good info on this site for everyone. For a guy who's only handgun was an origial Auto Mag to now haveing a .40 handgun and starting to shoot competition I say keep it up.

I have been following Brian's adventures on another site for some time and being a person who likes to tinker and try out new projects, I have two sets of his dies and I am about to get a third. As I said in the other thread as an answer to those who said why make them when you can buy them, people would say why reload when you can buy loaded ammo.

I didn't get the dies to make my 165's for my 6" limited gun, I did get them so I could make things that you cannot buy. Tell me where I can get a 210 gr. or 225 gr. JSP or a 240 gr. JHP (yes a .40 cal 240 JHP with a cannelure in the right place) heavy loads in my 10mm? Or how about a .44 MAG JHP with a cannelure in the right location for seating the bullets long in my Ruger Redhawk? Well with these dies I can do all that and more.

In the first pic is a row of .40 bullets from L to R: Nosler 135 JHP, Federal 155 JHP from Border Patrol ammo, Montana Gold 165 JHP, my 195 JHP, 200 gr. XTP, 200 gr. MG CMJ, my 200 gr. JSP and my 240 JHP.

In the second pic is a 300 gr. .44 JHP with dual cannelures and my standard 250 gr. JHP with the cannelure set so I can load it long. Next is a .40 200 gr. JSP with a cannelure for loading in my 610 revolver and then a 195 JHP with dual cannelures for loading on both my 10mm auto and my 610 revolver.

In the 3rd pic is a batch of .40 cal 210 JSP's

In the fourth pic shows the two parts of a .44 mag bullet and then the bullet loaded in a cartridge.

Neal in AZ

That is art there. very nice!

[Kyle O]

It'd be a useful skill were there ever a bullet drought. I'm a tinkerer, that would be as far as I would take it.

I'll keep rolling my own, but not growing them too.

Sorry, I didn't even say welcome aboard!

Just now realized it was your first post, DOH!

[BT Sniper]

No prob I can take it. You guys have quite the demographic here as I broused the welcome aboard section and saw guys from all over the world here. Great way to learn a bit more about this hobby/sport.

As for the "art" of making your own it is certainly fun to at least see what can be done with a bit of time and imagination. I've only been at it a couple years. For those interested check out the link of my latest projects.

http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/

couple of teaser pics.

a 240 grain 44 cal xtp look a like from 40 S&W brass

here is a couple 40 cals from copper tubing, probably around 150 and 170 grains

BT

Edited November 13, 2010 by BT Sniper

[kamikaze1a]

Pretty cool stuff! I had researched the 22lr into .224 bullet idea not because it was economical or better but because I thought it would be rewarding to make my own jacketed bullets. Never moved beyond the research stage but very thought provoking.

I would love to see the look on the face of the forensic technician when they dug that bullet out during an autopsy...

[sargenv]

I think I referred BT over here from um.. another forum where I bought into the bullet making kick hook, line, and sinker.. I have since made quite a few and shot almost as many.. It was just another step up in my quest to find affordable bullets even if it was with a little elbow grease.

I can say that except for the die and ejector, I already was mostly outfitted with the tooling to make these little gems. With casting the cores 6 at a time with a 6 cavity 9mm 125 gr RN mold.. and forming the bullets with the die on my Rock Chucker press, it takes me roughly 3 hours per 1000, give or take. I still have not hammered out a final time yet.. but will pay more attention next time. As for buying brass.. um.. there is a mountain of 9mm brass out there.. 'nuff said.

If you are buying brass and buying lead, this isn't for you.. you aren't working hard enough to find alternate sources to make this worth it.. If you have a source of 9mm brass and access to scrap lead.. already own a heavier single stage press and either cast or know someone who does and have some amount of spare time well.. then this is for you If you don't have the time to put into this, then Montana Gold, Bear creek, and countless other manufacturers are happy to sell you their product. I like it becuase I don't have to depend on anyone but me and my ability to scrounge up and re-use something that was discarded/spent.

I would love to see the look on the face of the forensic technician when they dug that bullet out during an autopsy...

When I show someone one of mine after it hits steel (they pancake pretty well, mostly all that is left is the pancaked brass) they always look at it and I can see in their mind how confused they are... 'wtf' is usually what I know they are thinking...

Edited November 19, 2010 by sargenv

[G-ManBart]

Do not let Gman spoil your accomplishment at making these very nice looking bullets.

What the???

I didn't say anything negative, just that it wouldn't be cost or time effective for many/most of us. It's interesting, but I want to be a better shooter, not better bullet former

[jaredr]

innovation and self sufficiency is always cool. welcome aboard!

[sargenv]

As I see it.. and the reason I started making my own.. (beyond just rolling my own) is that no one made exactly what I wanted.. when I saw what BT was coming up with, I thought to myself, "Cool, I want one of those!". The fact that I had all of the things needed besides the die put the icing on the cake so to speak. If you have time on your hands to do all that it entails, then it's satisfying to be able to get exactly what you want. If you don't have the time to put into it and the manufacturers make a product that is good for you, then you can pay for what they offer and save the time you would otherwise spend on that specific thing. Not everyone has the time to do everything.. I'm happy that after shooting a 40 cal revo that I finally have exactly what I want and the added ability to make something not offered is a bonus. For most ppl, it is not possible and that's ok too.. I've resigned myself from ever making GM but that's ok.. not everyone can do it. I'm ok with that. I do derive satisfaction from shooting that which I create and knowing I get more bang for my buck even though I need put a little time into it.. and that's what the winter months are for me.. time spent creating the things I will use for the remainder of the year. It's not so bad

[GrumpyOne]

I think it's downright great! Too bad you don't have a type 6 FFL so you could sell them!

[jaredr]

actually, you can sell projectiles with no federal licensing required - it's sale of loaded ammunition (or reloading "services" if you're using customer brass) that requires an O6 FFL

[sargenv]

Just another addition to this thread... I just figured out a pretty good estimate on how long it takes to put together 1k of these.. casting the cores it takes about 75 mins per 1000, seating the cores into the brass, about 45 mins, and finally lubing and forming the bullets another 45 mins.. for a grand total of time of 2.75 hours per 1000. I make the cores using a 6 cavity Lee 124 2R RN mold and a Lee 4-20 production pot. I seat the cores into the brass using a Dillon 650. I finish them through the Die on the Rock Chucker... Loading them into ammo takes another hour to an hour and 15 mins. So from nothing to loaded ammo takes about 4 hours per 1000. Not too shabby.. Of course to make it worth it, you should have access to an inexpensive source of scrap lead and scrap 9mm brass otherwise it will cost as much as MG's to make up.

Edited November 29, 2010 by sargenv

[d_striker]

Just another addition to this thread... I just figured out a pretty good estimate on how long it takes to put together 1k of these.. casting the cores it takes about 75 mins per 1000, seating the cores into the brass, about 45 mins, and finally lubing and forming the bullets another 45 mins.. for a grand total of time of 2.75 hours per 1000. I make the cores using a 6 cavity Lee 124 2R RN mold and a Lee 4-20 production pot. I seat the cores into the brass using a Dillon 650. I finish them through the Die on the Rock Chucker... Loading them into ammo takes another hour to an hour and 15 mins. So from nothing to loaded ammo takes about 4 hours per 1000. Not too shabby.. Of course to make it worth it, you should have access to an inexpensive source of scrap lead and scrap 9mm brass otherwise it will cost as much as MG's to make up.

What about annealing your brass?

[BT Sniper]

When people start realizing you make bullets and are willing to trade for them you have them coming to you with brass by the gallon. Even lead too.

Been busy as usual and not much time to shoot here in the snow but still making bullets and offering the dies to do so also.

Do check out ammobrasstrader there Sarge as usually some pretty good deals can be found on brass. I have traded some of my better 44 cal bullets up words of 20-1 in brass to bullets with people happy to do so. Great way to use up scrap brass.

As for annealing, testing may still be out as to wether it is actually needed with these 40 cals. Yes you can add probably 45 minutes I suppose maybe less per thousand. I use a stainless steel colender in a gutted BBQ with probably 2-300 at a time for about 5-10 minutes a batch.

Good shooting,

BT

[Downrange58]

When people start realizing you make bullets and are willing to trade for them you have them coming to you with brass by the gallon. Even lead too.

Been busy as usual and not much time to shoot here in the snow but still making bullets and offering the dies to do so also.

Do check out ammobrasstrader there Sarge as usually some pretty good deals can be found on brass. I have traded some of my better 44 cal bullets up words of 20-1 in brass to bullets with people happy to do so. Great way to use up scrap brass.

As for annealing, testing may still be out as to wether it is actually needed with these 40 cals. Yes you can add probably 45 minutes I suppose maybe less per thousand. I use a stainless steel colender in a gutted BBQ with probably 2-300 at a time for about 5-10 minutes a batch.

Good shooting,

BT

Welcome BT!

As a newb comp. shooter myself, let me say "good shootin" in your first match!! My mom lives in Albany/Scio/Lebanon area up there and I hope to get up there to shoot next year. Where do you shoot? Come on down here and shoot the match that Sargenv runs/shoots..... That will test your metal

Edited December 9, 2010 by Downrange58