APEX Tactical Firing Pin

[SPDGG]

Hello,

I am looking for feedback on these two APEX Tactical Revolver Firing Pin offerings?

APEX XP IGNITION KIT:

The Apex XP ignition kit consists of the firing pin (17-4 heat treated stainless steel) and a reduced power firing pin return spring. Recommended for concealed carry/off duty/backup revolvers to reduce the probability of light strikes.

Overall length is .500"

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid4.html

APEX COMPETITION FIRING PIN KIT:

The Apex Competition Firing Pin kit consists of the firing pin (17-4 heat treated stainless steel) and a reduced power firing pin return spring. Intended for competition use only. This was designed specifically to reduce the probability of light hits for High Performance trigger action work- specifically handloads using Federal primers seated .008"-.010" in depth.

Overall length is .495" (allows for greater free run distance)

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid2.html

- Main part I'm trying to figure out is the Firing Pin Length from the:

XP .500" to the COMPETITION .495"

- Close look at the pics of each FP shows the Comp FP shortened at the tip.

Only thing I can come up with is that the APEX Competition FP is intended for Reloads were Fed Primers are hand seated/crushed deep. With that the FP wouldnt lose any energy in striking the primer meaning it wouldnt need the extra length.

While the APEX XP FP may be used with Ammo tailored for Personal Defense & not reloads. Primers may have not fully seated in the case and will be driven further forward in the pocket with the hammer strike, losing energy. The longer length is need to insure the seat & more to drive into the primer with whatever energy is left in the hammer strike.

So, would there be any harm in running the XP FP .500" with hand seated FED/CCI/WIN primers?

Would the small difference of .005" in length matter?

Appreciate any info./feedback, Thanks.

Edited October 27, 2010 by SPDGG

[Matt Griffin]

The information I've heard is that through Randy's testing, he determined that having a longer distance to travel gave the pin more time to speed up, creating the sharp blow needed to pop a Federal at minimum force. The long one sounds like what you described, a crusher made to enhance an already-factory trigger so that absolutely nothing will fail to fire.

H.

[Flork]

You would be surprised what a difference .005" can make in trigger pull weight.

The Competition firing pin has a conical shape tip that's better suited to get a deeper strike on the softer Federal primers when the DA weight is set for around 4 lbs.

The XP Firing pin maintains the same domed tip as the factory pins, but is longer and better suited for striking primers when the trigger pull weight is higher than a competition gun.

The problem with the Conical tip Comp pin is that if you crank up the Strain Screw you are likely to puncture the primer cup when firing, which is not preferable.

[10mmdave]

Well that's not right ! !

Somebody's already come up with an extended firing pin (insert big sarcastic smily icon here)

[Carmoney]

The current "Cali drop test" S&W factory stock Ti firing pin uses a pointy tip, and it most certainly does not work better than the older version of the factory pin with the rounded ("domed") tip--not with Federal primers, not with anything. Whether that results from the pointy tip or the reduced length of the pin remains a little unclear.

[Forrest Halley]

I'm not plugging for anybody here.

Some facts:

Cylinder and Slide extended firing pins....I've been through two of them in about 10,000 pulls of the trigger(Between dry fire and live fire). Both sheared right at the base of the pin. Gun would still fire, but jammed the cylinder until the pin was able to wiggle back into the recoil plate. The timing of the gun was right on so I don't believe it sheared due to the cylinder turning after the hammerfall.

Apex Tactical: I talked to them the other day and they informed me that they would stand behind their firing pins and if it was to break they would replace it.

I was informed the following:

Competition is for lighter strain spring settings as the sharper pin could possibly pierce the primer at a heavy setting.

XP is for duty guns with a heavier hammer strike (and is more rounded like the CnS but differing in the flat hammerstrike area...CnS is more rounded over).

Both kits come with a noticeably lighter(IMHO) return spring.

I purchased two competitions for my game gun and one XP for my carry gun.

I have not tested either as they just arrived yesterday, but I would be more than happy to share my results if there is an interest.

[lugnut]

After inspecting my stock pin and the Apex- don't get caught up in the overall length- I think what is also very important is the notch in the FP which controls the travel of the FP. The Apex Competition FP definitely has a pointy tip compared to the stock rounded tip. I just got my Apex Competition and installed it tonight!

[lugnut]

One other thing- the Apex weighs in at 11.2gr and the S&W Ti weighs in at 6.3gr. I'm sure that has some effect.. although I'm not sure what.

[robot]

I just swapped out the C&S Extended firing pin for the Apex one. Can't wait to go out the test it.

post any updates when you can please! thanks.

[Forrest Halley]

Today I finished a 120 roundish USPSA match with my Apex tactical competition firing pin. I had about 20 light strikes. I have just gotten a Dillon 550 and I will give it the benefit of the doubt and go through the rest of the 350 rounds I have loaded in practice. I am using federal gold medal match magnum primers. My friend has been experimenting with the Apex comp also and is having similar results. 9 out of 10 are now light strikes with the strain screw all the way in. This gun was 90% reliable before with winchester primers with the factory firing pin. Will evaluate further and re post.

[SPDGG]

Thank you ALL for the info./feedback above. I'll report back my info. w/ details as well in the near future.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

"Forrest Halley", From your post I take it you are seating primers through the Dillon 550 & Not hand seating each Fed primer?

Thanks for your feedback, Appreciate it.

Edited November 8, 2010 by SPDGG

[Forrest Halley]

Thank you ALL for the info./feedback above. I'll report back my info. w/ details as well in the near future.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

"Forrest Halley", From your post I take it you are seating primers through the Dillon 550 & Not hand seating each Fed primer?

Thanks for your feedback, Appreciate it.

Yep. That's a roger. I am apparently the last person to find out that its a good idea to had seat them after the machine. Any revo greats out there with ammo loading tips feel free to PM me.

Another note I polished off the protruding bit at the base of the striking head of my hammer(which contacts the frame) and it seems to have increased performance greatly. Feels like I'm back in the sixes or even lower.

[SPDGG]

IMHO:

I would recommend to hand seat/crush the primers in the brass casings ahead of time. After run them through your normal routine without the decapping pin in the first station.

I would never re-seat a primer in a loaded round. To much to go wrong at that point.

Glad your trigger # is back to normal.

Edited November 8, 2010 by SPDGG

[Carmoney]

There's no reason to tolerate any misfires from a competition wheelgun. Get the ammo situation straight, and then increase the mainspring tension until the gun works 100%. You're letting yourself get distracted by the whole firing pin thing.

[Patrick1981]

in definitive, the Apex competition FP is not so important ?

[toothguy]

in definitive, the Apex competition FP is not so important ?

Patrick, I dry fire alot and have broken a few factory and C&S firing pins, and the small rebound spring. I have not broken an Apex pin yet and he gives you the rebound spring as well.

Apex Competition Firing Pin Kit

Sale price: $14.99

The Apex Competition Firing Pin kit consists of the firing pin (17-4 heat treated stainless steel) and a reduced power firing pin return spring. Intended for competition use only. This was designed specifically to reduce the probability of light hits for High Performance trigger action work- specifically handloads using Federal primers seated .008"-.010" in depth.

Overall length is .495" (allows for greater free run distance)

http://www.apextactical.com/

Edited December 19, 2012 by toothguy

[pskys2]

For one Magnum Primers will always be harder than standard, just as Rifle Primers are harder, even a Federal.

I've been using Apex FP for several years and did have one break, I emailed Randy about it just to let him know and he sent me another no charge. I'd already thrown it out and couldn't send it back, don't know what I was thinking. Randy is a stand up guy and makes great products.

I've broken at least 3 C&S and the original factory FP and ruined 2 springs between 2004 and 2008. Since 2008 been using Apex.

[Jaxshooter]

Why are you adjusting the strain screw? That is not the way you lighten the double action pull on a revolver. Have a proper action job done on the gun and leave the strain screw all the way in and loctite it.

[toothguy]

Why are you adjusting the strain screw? That is not the way you lighten the double action pull on a revolver. Have a proper action job done on the gun and leave the strain screw all the way in and loctite it.

After you do the action job it's easier to set the hammer spring say at around an 8 lb. trigger pull, and use the strain screw as a finer adjustment. I like to set mine at about 1/8th of a turn past 100% reliable. I put a mark on the screw and the frame to make sure it hasn't moved and use blue loctite.

Edited December 19, 2012 by toothguy

[PatJones]

There is a balance between the weight on the mainspring and the rebound spring. The rebound housing needs to lift the hammer off the firing pin. A heavier mainspring requires more rebound tension to lift the hammer. If you set the mainspring weight for an 8 lb pull and reduce it with the strain screw you will have more weight than necessary on the rebound spring. I have a 6 lb pull on my 627 and I am running almost a pound more mainspring tension than other guns I have measured at the local ICORE matches. My rebound spring would not lift the hammer if I adjusted the mainspring for an 8lb pull. The springs are balanced nicely, I cannot tie up the action even with an empty gun.

-pat

[toothguy]

There is a balance between the weight on the mainspring and the rebound spring. The rebound housing needs to lift the hammer off the firing pin. A heavier mainspring requires more rebound tension to lift the hammer. If you set the mainspring weight for an 8 lb pull and reduce it with the strain screw you will have more weight than necessary on the rebound spring. I have a 6 lb pull on my 627 and I am running almost a pound more mainspring tension than other guns I have measured at the local ICORE matches. My rebound spring would not lift the hammer if I adjusted the mainspring for an 8lb pull. The springs are balanced nicely, I cannot tie up the action even with an empty gun.

-pat

Pat, I start with a straight spring (Miculek) I'm guessing at the 8lb trigger pull. I just know it's more than I need. I put the hammer spring in place and adjust the hammer tension with the strain screw to approximately 34oz. for reliable ignition. I then balance the rebound spring for feel, usually I start with a 11lb spring and cut off 2 coils. I end up with a 6 to 6.5 trigger pull that is 100% reliable and has very good reset. I'm sure I could get it lighter and still be reliable but I like the snappy return.

I guess my point earlier was that I use the strain screw to make fine adjustments instead of bending the hammer spring.

Edited December 19, 2012 by toothguy

[PatJones]

I don't trust loctite alone to hold adjustment over time. I like the strain screw tightened down against it's seat.

I try and maintain as much mainspring tension as possible given the desired trigger pull. I am not looking for the lightest possible pull, but the most reliable ignition.

I am using the C&S firing pin in my gun and I have used the Apex competition pin in customers guns and I haven't seen a difference at 6-7 pound pulls. I find it easy to short stroke the trigger at exceedingly light pull weights. I do not dry fire practice at home, I occasionally snap on empties at the range.

-pat

Edited December 19, 2012 by PatJones

[Patrick1981]

I use some medium (blu) Loctite on the strainscrew and use a shorted one, because it work on much coils than a standard one half screwed.

[toothguy]

I don't trust loctite alone to hold adjustment over time. I like the strain screw tightened down against it's seat.

I try and maintain as much mainspring tension as possible given the desired trigger pull. I am not looking for the lightest possible pull, but the most reliable ignition.

I am using the C&S firing pin in my gun and I have used the Apex competition pin in customers guns and I haven't seen a difference at 6-7 pound pulls. I find it easy to short stroke the trigger at exceedingly light pull weights. I do not dry fire practice at home, I occasionally snap on empties at the range.

-pat

Pat, One of Toolguys great ideas was to replace the factory strain screw with a longer allen head screw. With a little loctite it stays put. All my revolvers that Toolguy built are 100% reliable. The PPC revolver has a smooth return with no hitch but It is not as snappy so my trigger pull is less. My Bianchi revolvers have a snappier rebound because without it you will short stroke at the 10 yard stages. I don't worry about getting the trigger pull super light anymore I try to increase my hand strength. I dry fire all the time. I use snap caps but even with them I break the C&S pins. Toolguy made some S7 tool steel firing pins that are pretty indestructible, I keep these in reserve. The Apex pin has held up much longer so far, so even if it doesn't aid in better ignition it seems to be a better design or steel.

[Patrick1981]

After a lot of use, a snapcaps don't go worn ?

I mean in the center, where firing pin strike.