M&P 9L, can it be accurate?

[Mickster]

Ammo wise, shooting from sandbag rests, I've tried everything within reason.

Factory ammo wise I've tried 115's, 124's & 147's. I've tried hand loads with the same bullets weights using powder and loads from this forum. Nothing gets it. The gun is stock except for a trigger job.

At 30 yards the best I can get is 4" five shot groups. Is that about the best I can expect from this gun? Are Glocks and XD's about the same?

[Sarge]

I read all the time on here about guys shooting 2" groups with a Glock, M&P, etc. at 25 yards. All I can say is, that's impressive. Of all the groups I have ever shot only one time did I get under 3". That was with my M&P PRO with MG 147's and TG. But I was never able to do it again. So that tells me the gun was capable but I was maxed out on my abilities. I think your gun could shoot a 2" group at 25 yards all day from a ransom rest type vise. I feel us shooters are the weak link.

I am around 4" or so at 25 yards with my current load in my G34. For me that is about as good as it gets for now.

[Philo_Beddoe]

I read all the time on here about guys shooting 2" groups with a Glock, M&P, etc. at 25 yards. All I can say is, that's impressive. Of all the groups I have ever shot only one time did I get under 3". That was with my M&P PRO with MG 147's and TG. But I was never able to do it again. So that tells me the gun was capable but I was maxed out on my abilities. I think your gun could shoot a 2" group at 25 yards all day from a ransom rest type vise. I feel us shooters are the weak link.

I am around 4" or so at 25 yards with my current load in my G34. For me that is about as good as it gets for now.

Its my experiance that the M&P is about as accurate as the XD and Glock and less accurate then my CZ.

[G-ManBart]

Yes, I think 2" at 25yds is possible. I'll include a link to a technique discussion that may apply here. The group below was shot indoors, at 25yds, in poor lighting...pretty much a 1.25" group, with Atlanta Arms & Ammo 147gr JHP Team Glock (new brass) load. Here's the thread (it's short):

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111693&view=findpost&p=1267796

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've found that if you shoot enough 5 shot groups,

at least one of them will be a 2 - 2.5" group.

Most of them will be 4-5" groups.

That really confused me, so I started shooting

12 - 18 shot groups, and usually find that

80% of the bullets hit within a 2 1/2" group,

but that you always have a few bullets hitting

out further, randomly, so that some are higher

or lower, or left or right.

So, if I get real selective, I can show you

very small five shot groups (or as Mas Ayoob

likes to do is fire five shots, and leave out

the two furthest out), and you have a GREAT

group.

Try shooting larger groups, and you'll have

a much better idea of what the combination

of You, your Gun and your Ammo will actually

be able to shoot.

[Merlin Orr]

I get consistent .5 minute of upper A/B panel at ~25 yards with my 9L.

For my purposes this is fine....

[Philo_Beddoe]

I've found that if you shoot enough 5 shot groups,

at least one of them will be a 2 - 2.5" group.

Most of them will be 4-5" groups.

That really confused me, so I started shooting

12 - 18 shot groups, and usually find that

80% of the bullets hit within a 2 1/2" group,

but that you always have a few bullets hitting

out further, randomly, so that some are higher

or lower, or left or right.

So, if I get real selective, I can show you

very small five shot groups (or as Mas Ayoob

likes to do is fire five shots, and leave out

the two furthest out), and you have a GREAT

group.

Try shooting larger groups, and you'll have

a much better idea of what the combination

of You, your Gun and your Ammo will actually

be able to shoot.

Agreed I normally shoot 10 shot groups.

[Sandro]

Ammo wise, shooting from sandbag rests, I've tried everything within reason.

Factory ammo wise I've tried 115's, 124's & 147's. I've tried hand loads with the same bullets weights using powder and loads from this forum. Nothing gets it. The gun is stock except for a trigger job.

At 30 yards the best I can get is 4" five shot groups. Is that about the best I can expect from this gun? Are Glocks and XD's about the same?

Mick,

Try Tite group and Zero 115gr. It is not as soft as 147gr, but the accurary should be better.

DVC,

Sandro

[blind bat]

+1 For the GMan. His tip worked wonders on my G34 group shooting. From his tip I also realized I wasn't gripping the G34 tightly enough. Doing so improved my overall accuracy with the G34 quite a bit. I also started using a grip strength exerciser (ProGrip medium) in the car on the commute to and from work.

[RH45]

The only loads I've found that will do 2" or less at 25 yards with my M&P Pro, or, Glock 34, is 4 grains of Titegroup, behind a Hornady 124 grain, XTP, or, a Zero, 125 grain, .356(.38 super bullet) jhp. With fmjs, or, any Montana Golds I've tried, the groups open up to about 4".

I've been playing with some loads with VV N320, and they seem a lot softer, but, I really haven't really shot them for accuracy yet.

[assaulter]

It's odd that my Missouri Bullet Company lead bullets shoot tighter than my XTP loads. With that said. I can keep hits in the A zone at 50 yards and I can hit steel poppers at 100 yards. So I guess I don't really need any tighter than that.

[eric4069]

My MP9 groups also improved by switching to the GMan technique but using a small Wildrness Tactical sandbag which is pretty convenient to fit into a range bag.

Eric

[Mickster]

So here's how it went at the range. Using a couple of sandbags under my wrists, elbows planted on the bench, firm grip on the gun and nothing touching the gun except my grip. I shot 3 to 4 five shot groups at 25 yards with each of the loads and ammo listed below.

Winchester white box 115

Corbon 147

Federal 115

3.4 titegroup/147 xtp

4.8 ww231/115 fmj

3.9 ww231/147 fmj

I will say this. The gun is consistent! Groups for all the above were 4"-6", most around 4", some at 6" and a couple at 7". Only 1 group almost made it to 3" and that was the Corbon 147's. The rest of the Corbon groups were back to the 4-6 inch range.

At the Ozark 3-gun most of the pistol targets were 4 or 5 inch steel plates at varying distances out to 25 yards. A pistol that shoots an average 5" group is putting the shooter at a big disadvantage from the get go.

I like the M&P, it feels good, points good and handles good and would like to use it for 3-gun. But before I start doling out cash for sights, mag base pads, etc. etc. it has to shoot better. All that's been done to the pistol is a trigger job and the front sight narrowed.

If there is a way to get it to shoot 2" I'd like to know. Anybody got any bright ideas? What say you G-man?

By the way, I use my Beretta 92fs as a bench mark. It shoots 2" at 25 yards. It's a great pistol, for me just not right for 3-gun.

[DWFAN]

I shot my M&P at Bianchi Cup, and several others shot them there also. Mine just shooting prone, no sandbag will keep them all in the 8 ring. I would think that most M&P's could do it also.

I shot a 124gr Montana gold JHP over 4.1gr Titegroup. A 147gr bullet may be more accurate. You'll just have to play with the powder charge and OAL. Try a KKM Barrel, heard good things about those as well.

[mike cyrwus]

I've Had great luck from welding up Kkm barrels and then refitting them. Stock barrels benefit as well. The problem I have with the Kkm and SL barrels is that they are

Absolutely identical in external densions to stock barrels.

[assaulter]

One thing I have noticed when dry firing my Pro is that the front sight will jump to the right when the trigger breaks. If I "set" the slide to the right before I fire, it doesn't do this. The slide has a lot of slop left to right in it. I wonder if this is enough to through a shot off just a bit before the bullet leaves the barrel? I haven't had a chance to test this theory at the range. Anyone else have a lot of slide movement at the muzzle?

[JohnN]

I've Had great luck from welding up Kkm barrels and then refitting them. Stock barrels benefit as well. The problem I have with the Kkm and SL barrels is that they are

Absolutely identical in external densions to stock barrels.

So, your just as well off welding up the stock barrel and not spending the extra cash on what is essentially a replacement barrel that needs to be modified anyway. How much accuracy do you generally realize on a modified stock barrel? How is reliability effected?

[Mickster]

Back from another session with the M&P9L. The only thing I changed on the gun is the plastic grip panel. I switched it to the medium so I could get a better purchase on the gun.

I used the same loads except for the 3.2/Tite-147xtp. I seated them out to 1.140 which I think is about as far as you can go and still have it function reliably.

At 32 yards off sandbags with wrists only touching. 5 shot groups were 5", 4", 2 1/4". That's a bit better than previously posted. Next step will be to bump up the powder charge but since I'm out of bullets I'll have to wait until my next Cabella's trip.

However:

Fed 115's = 3 1/2", 7 1/2"

Win WB 115's = 6 1/2", 5 1/4"

Speer lawman 115's = 4 1/2", 8", 6 1/2"

My M&P9L does not seem to like 115's. Is that due to the factory twist rate? Did S&W design the gun for 147's?

I would be interested in the barrel weld-up also if it would improve performance.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I've had similar frustrations with my M&P with regard to grouping. I've tried lots of different ammo and it's at best a 4-5" gun at 25 yards. I have Glocks that will stay inside 3" for 10 shot strings at 25 yards all day and my SA 10-8 Operator is a legit sub-two inch gun, so in this case, it's the gun and not the shooter (at least THIS time).

Randy Lee of Apex Tactical has stated that he's working on new sear housing blocks and locking blocks that combined with the forthcoming Bar Sto barrels should turn the M&P into a sub-two inch gun (he thought they would shoot into an inch). I hope he's successful. I really like the M&P a lot and want to see it shoot lights out. Time will tell..

[mike cyrwus]

I've Had great luck from welding up Kkm barrels and then refitting them. Stock barrels benefit as well. The problem I have with the Kkm and SL barrels is that they are

Absolutely identical in external densions to stock barrels.

So, your just as well off welding up the stock barrel and not spending the extra cash on what is essentially a replacement barrel that needs to be modified anyway. How much accuracy do you generally realize on a modified stock barrel? How is reliability effected?

The stock barrels benefit, but they are sometimes a little iffy in the bore.

on 6" grouping guns at 25yd, Id expect to see the groups halved. Even on relatively tight shooting guns, what I dont see are unexplained flyers. Well, ones that I cant honestly contribute to my finger!

No reliability issues.

mike

Edited October 8, 2010 by mike cyrwus

[sperman]

I finally gave up on the M&P due to accuracy issues. The last time I went to the range with the gun I had about 10 different batches of ammo. Some of them grouped better than others, but none of them were spectacular. Regardless of the rest of the group, the first shot was always off by 4"-6" from the rest. That's when I sold the M&P and bought a CZ.

I have a Storm Lake barrel that I did a little welding on. If anyone wants to give it a try I'll sell it cheap.

[JohnN]

Thanks for the reply Mike. I have had great luck with my M&P's and they seem to shoot well enough for IDPA but I wonder why there is so much accuracy difference in individual guns?

[mike cyrwus]

Thanks for the reply Mike. I have had great luck with my M&P's and they seem to shoot well enough for IDPA but I wonder why there is so much accuracy difference in individual guns?

Most of it it the finger thats behind them!

Some stock M&P barrels have had iffy crowns, some have a looser fit than others. Light recoil springs dont help at all with consistency.

M&P's made late 2009 and on have better accuracy Ive noticed.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Mike,

Does the Melonite finish affect how you do the weld up on a stock barrel?

[mike cyrwus]

Mike,

Does the Melonite finish affect how you do the weld up on a stock barrel?

I bring the surface down to bare steel where the welds are.

I should mention that they are laser welded and not tigged.