38SuperDub Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I actually like the round limit idea. You're over thinking the counting while shooting method. Chrono guy gets mag - puts how ever many rounds he can fit in there. BAM done. No counting needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) <sarcasm> Ah, I just finished shooting this stage. Kicked ass with my 34 round mag. Must go clean magazines as usual. Must remember to swap in longer spring and thicker followers because chrono stage is up next. </sarcasm> Don't get me wrong, though. I do like the simplicity of the idea. K.I.S.S. Edited August 6, 2012 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 It must lie so that the back of the magazine is flush against the gauge. This is the only part I have issue with. I have three 170s that meet USPSA and IPSC length requirements. None of them are flush with the guage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 From BOD minutes. Language for review: The primary magazine measuring device shall be the EGW mag gauge. A magazine should conform to the length limit as well as the gauge to comply with the rules. The gauge extends to infinity. No curved, collapsible, extendable, or similar types of magazines will be allowed. If a base pad does not conform to the configuration of the gauge, a ruler may be used to measure the overall length as pictured in Appendix E1. The magazine shall be placed into the gauge without any force or depression. It must lie so that the back of the magazine is flush against the gauge. The follower may be depressed to ensure proper fit. If the magazine fit or procedure is questioned, the RM call will be final. Match Directors should ensure that the Chrono Stage has a chair for the Range Master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Match Directors should ensure that the Chrono Stage has a chair for the Range Master My EXPERIENCE is - those matches that are running scale and mag gauge often do have the RM quite frequently at the chrono station. I would put it right next to the food wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I actually like the round limit idea. You're over thinking the counting while shooting method. Chrono guy gets mag - puts how ever many rounds he can fit in there. BAM done. No counting needed LOL - no way. Could you imagine what it would be like to load and unload 120 magazines in the course of a day? 360 over a match? Even with a lula, that's insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38SuperDub Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Easy - competitor loads mag - you see if you can fit 1 extra round - then unload and count - last I checked unloading is pretty fast and painless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If a shooter is deemed to have an illegal length magazine at the crono stage by failling the gage and ruler measurements, is he allowed to correct this issue or is he immediately moved to Open (from their "normal" division) or shooting for no score (if already an Open shooter)? What if it's only ONE of their 15 magazines and the other 14 are all legal? Just trying to understand the implications of the new wording... HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Question on "depression" with the new addendum being considered: does that include the incidental depression of the tolerances of a basepad on a mag tube with a spring pushing on it? That .25 to .5 of tolerance which doesn't require much depression makes all the difference in the case of mags and basepads tuned to take advantage of the gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If a shooter is deemed to have an illegal length magazine at the crono stage by failling the gage and ruler measurements, is he allowed to correct this issue or is he immediately moved to Open (from their "normal" division) or shooting for no score (if already an Open shooter)? What if it's only ONE of their 15 magazines and the other 14 are all legal? Just trying to understand the implications of the new wording... HH I don't think anything in the ruling changes the way that is handled. All mags should pass the requirements, just like a Production shooter should pass the weight requirement with all his magazines. As a matter of practice, though, I think that most chrono staff just take a sampling of magazines (at matches I've been a sample of one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If a shooter is deemed to have an illegal length magazine at the crono stage by failling the gage and ruler measurements, is he allowed to correct this issue or is he immediately moved to Open (from their "normal" division) or shooting for no score (if already an Open shooter)? What if it's only ONE of their 15 magazines and the other 14 are all legal? Just trying to understand the implications of the new wording... HH Immediately moved top Open. I guess there might be some wiggle room if the Chrono is your first stage of the match. One magazine being too long is all it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The problem with capacity is what number do you set as the capacity? 20 for limited, 21 for limited? what happens when you set it as 20 for limited with those who have mags that hold 21-22 rounds. In Limited 10 you can shoot the 21 round mags with only 10 rounds in them. So load it to the max wouldnt work as thats not how its done in Limited 10 or SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The problem with capacity is what number do you set as the capacity? 20 for limited, 21 for limited? what happens when you set it as 20 for limited with those who have mags that hold 21-22 rounds. In Limited 10 you can shoot the 21 round mags with only 10 rounds in them. So load it to the max wouldnt work as thats not how its done in Limited 10 or SS 20 limited, 28 open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) The problem with capacity is what number do you set as the capacity? 20 for limited, 21 for limited? what happens when you set it as 20 for limited with those who have mags that hold 21-22 rounds. In Limited 10 you can shoot the 21 round mags with only 10 rounds in them. So load it to the max wouldnt work as thats not how its done in Limited 10 or SS 20 limited, 28 open Still Crap. Part of the game in these divisions is letting the equipment work for you. If you can get 21+1 in limited and run a 21 round stage without reloading - it's part of the game. You dance the line you could get caught - and there in lies the rub. Stop with trying to utilize round capacities to fix the equipment rules - it takes something away from the game to make officials lives easier - which is more crap. ETA: Not trying to be antagonistic - just honest about my feelings toward the proposed fix for mag gauge issues. Just like anything else, it is what it is, if you don't like the call by the official, escalate. Edited August 31, 2012 by aztecdriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 The problem with capacity is what number do you set as the capacity? 20 for limited, 21 for limited? what happens when you set it as 20 for limited with those who have mags that hold 21-22 rounds. In Limited 10 you can shoot the 21 round mags with only 10 rounds in them. So load it to the max wouldnt work as thats not how its done in Limited 10 or SS 20 limited, 28 open Still Crap. Part of the game in these divisions is letting the equipment work for you. If you can get 21+1 in limited and run a 21 round stage without reloading - it's part of the game. You dance the line you could get caught - and there in lies the rub. Stop with trying to utilize round capacities to fix the equipment rules - it takes something away from the game to make officials lives easier - which is more crap. ETA: Not trying to be antagonistic - just honest about my feelings toward the proposed fix for mag gauge issues. Just like anything else, it is what it is, if you don't like the call by the official, escalate. I agree with aztec, there is a process on this like he says. I've seen guys with mags that hold 22-30 rds (ltd/opn) and they hope the mag works like it did in practice and they either make it or they crash. It's part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 You guys must absolutely hate Production and Limited 10 and Single Stack. Maybe those shooters are not really "part of the game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Uh, no. Part of the game with those Divisions is reloading and breaking down stages based around reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Nah, we don't hate L-10/Prod/SS shooters at all. Here in paradise even Open/Ltd has to shoot 10rd mags. It's just part of the game and shooters creativity (within the rules and laws of course). Reminds me of the earlier discussion about leveling the playing field for competitors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windscreen Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Bumping this topic back alive. Has there been any progress on the "official" mag measuring procedure? -Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fayetteflash Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 New rulebook is supposed to have this language in it: "Appendix E1: The primary magazine measuring device shall be the EGW mag gauge. A magazine needs to conform to the length limit as well as the gauge to comply with our rules. The gauge width extends to infinity. No curved, collapsible, extendable, or similar types of magazines will be allowed. If a base pad does not conform to the configuration of the gauge, a ruler may be used to measure the overall length as pictured above. The magazine shall be placed into the gauge without any force or depression. It must lie so that the back of the magazine is flush against the gauge. The follower may be depressed to ensure proper fit. If the magazine fit or procedure is questioned, the Range Masters call will be final. " So, we ran into this recently where a shooter's Limited magazine seemed not to fit and were curious about the ruling. In an EGW mag gauge, we placed the magazine into the gauge and noticed that the basepad was flush against the base and the feed lips were touching the top. The side was touching one of the two "tabs" across and just a little light was between the mag and the "tab" closest to the feedlips. By applying a slight amount of pressure which depressed the spring and basepad, it fit just fine. According to the new clarification, that sounds like the mag would not pass and the shooter would get bumped to Open. Moral of the story is that if you are that close, you need to make some adjustments to the basepad or feedlips to reduce the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Moral of the story is that if you are that close, you need to make some adjustments to the basepad or feedlips to reduce the risk. time and time again i have seen open shooters who are obviously using magazines which will not pass the gauge and yet they seem to be invincible.... it should be done the right and honest way... check all mags at the chrono station!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Looks like the BOD ignored the experience and advice of experienced mag tuners by not specifying that the gauge should be placed on the magazine rather than the called for mag on gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have one mag that fits if the base pad is depressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAB33 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I agree with rgkeller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I have 4 170's that fit if you take the spring out or put slight pressure, all 28 rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now