Gregor Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I recently aquired a S&W 625-3 Model of 1989 .45ACP 4" revolver. I have looked over the archives of this site and decided to become a member here due to the extensive knowldge on .45 ACP moon clipped revolvers. The revolver binds the cylinder rotation when moon clips that are thicker than .039" are used. The cartidge heads and moon clips drag on the recoil shield. In some cases, the cylinder cannot even be pressed into the frame window, the fitment is too tight. I have read that some of the 625-3's have a "tighter" tolerance chamber that my cause the ammunition to not fully seat into the chamber, sticking out the rear of the cylinder. I bought some Winchester White Box and Remington UMC 230gr. FMJ Hardball factory to try but the binding issue still occurs. I received two batches of moon clips, fat ones and thin (.039") ones. I need to know the following: 1. Why are there two thickness moon clips available for .45ACP revolvers? 2. What company manufactures moon clips in the .039" thickness? 3. What information can be offered to sort out the ammo/clip issue. I appreciate any information offered. Regards, Gregor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) I am no gunsmith but run two 625's all with Ranch Products moonclips and no problems. Used to have a 1917 and a M 25 too, never any moon troubles. Sounds to me you have a headspace problem, the cylinder can be adjusted in or out by a good S&W man. I had a crane screw back out one time and dropped the cylinder on reload hit hard concrete, it bent just a bit and made things drag, easy fix by someone who knows what he is doing. Other thing is perhaps the chamber is too tight. Try dropping a few in without the clips to see if the chamber is the problem. I think adjusting any revolver is more art than science, there are a lot of things that can go wrong. Guy that works on all the 625's around here is Matt at "the revolver armorer.com" active revolver competitor who shoots 625's as well as repairing them. He's been to the factory schools has the proper gauges and seen about anything go wrong that can go wrong. One question though is the problem with a clean gun ? Dirty cylinders at times will not allow the clip to drop in all the way causing binding too. Look to see if the clip is going all the way down. I have to run different loads for my 625's and 1911's Auto pistol slams one in with a spring, the 625 has to drop 6 gravity alone. Not a lot different but still different OAL crimp and powder Boats Edited July 23, 2010 by Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ BAD Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) Go to the BE's vendor tent and click on Carmonize'. Mike can and will take care of any problem you are having. Edited July 23, 2010 by PJ BAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMM50 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I agree with what Gregor is saying. My moon clips are 0.040 and I shooting TZZ brass (military and hard) in 4 revolvers. You need to then measure head space. But also consider powers. Any powder residue can keep the bullets from entering the cylinder all the way. I've has unburned powder lock up the cylinder so tight I hurt myself opening it. Just one small flake. I shoot clays now and it leaves no unburned small flakes. Another aspect of power is hot hot are your loads. My plate loads are so soft (don't tell anyone) you can see the bullet path of travel. These loads are not enough pressure to seal the brass against the cylinder wall and the walls get dirty. Keep a brush handy. I've polished the cylinders with a hone and that helps a lot. I plan on about one year of tuning before I get a gun working for competition. Keep us posted. gm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 All I have is Ranch moonclips for my 625. Measuring several of them they seem to run between .0383"-.0386" thick. The tight chamber issue, also prevelant in -8's, is usually only a problem with reloaded ammo, not with new brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
357454 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I have several 625s, when I experience the problems you are describing it is usually powder residue between the extractor and cylinder. You can easily clean this area with an old tooth brush by pushing on the ejector rod and brushing behind the extractor. If this doesn't fix the problem load the gun without using your moon clips and check for cylinder lockup and easy rotation. One other thing to check is the straightness of your moon clips, to test lay them on a flat surface and press on each edge if the clip raises up it is bent. I straighten mine with a small hammer and a steel plate by tapping on each segment then turning the clip over and repeating the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I'm not at home now (next week) but I get my m'clips from Cactus Tactical and they are the cheap ones. Never had a problem with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share Posted July 24, 2010 Thank you for the quick replys. I cleaned the cylinder chambers with a Brownells stainless steel revolver cylinder brush after a going over with a Lewis Lead Remover kit. No issues with residue under the extractor star. Happens with a clean gun. The 230gr. FMJ factory loads and 200gr. H&G 68 LSWC reloads fit into the chambers without the moon clips and work fine. My 225gr. LFP reloads require some pressing to fully seat into the chamber, (O.A.L little too long)but work fine after this. They are not tight going in, just stop before totally seating. I have two thicknesses of moon clips that came with the 625-3, .039" and .048". The .039" work with all of the ammunition, even the 225gr. LFP that need some pressing to fully seat. The .048" bind with everything and if you do not seat the 225gr. LFP beforehand, the cylinder will not close into the frame window. The b/c gap is a loose .003, .004 will not fit. The endshake is minimal. So, I figure that the headspace is set up for the .039"-.040" moon clips and the internal specs of the chamber are on the tight side for my reloads. I'll have to adjust things to work reliably. Tom E, I'll try the Ranch Products moon clips since you measured them and they are on the thinner side. The 625-3 is alot like my 617 10 shot, more attention is needed on residue in and around the chambers and extractor star, but shoot very well. Sure received alot of good information and appreciate it. Regards, Gregor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Guy came through our club matches with one of the new S&W 45 acp's few months ago, I think it was a night guard, Black finished gun, cheap gun show ammo would not chamber after a few cylinder fulls. Probably a mix of tight set up and inconsistent cartridges. Tolerances stack up they can make things stop You could tweak the ammo or clip and solve the problem but my guess it needs to be headspaced if you want it to work with anything. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 The 625-3 is alot like my 617 10 shot, more attention is needed on residue in and around the chambers and extractor star, but shoot very well. Regards, Gregor I think your analogy is more correct than you realize. Both guns (625 & 617) need to have their chambers reamed. Many dies also don't do too well sizing down the brass just above the extractor groove. Measure the diameter of a reloaded rd that doesn't want to chamber and a new round immediately above the extractor groove. Without going to an undersize die Lee's dies seem to size them down the best. 625's headspace off the moonclip not the case mouth. Seems S&W tried to make up for the chambers being too small by cutting them extra deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snertley Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Not sure about the 625s, but my 617 needed the chambers reamed so I could load and unload without killing my hand. (thanks Mike!) My 610 will fire 10mm with out moons and does headspace off the case, but I shoot .40 S&W for matchs and all headspace off the moonclip with now issues with the 2 brands of clips I have. It might be worth the time to find someone with a reamer and check the chamber size with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 The best thing to do is have Mike Carmoney do his action job along with straightening out the other problems. When the gun gets back it will be competition ready with an excellent trigger. The turn around time is fast. I have 5 S&Ws that have been Carmonized will not send mine to anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I occasionally had the same problem in my 4" 625-8 Model of 1989. I read on this forum something about 625's sometimes having one tight chamber: I think Mike Carmoney said it. Anyway, I rented a Clymer reamer from a company in Montana. I have machine tool experience so I did it myself; by hand, slowly with plenty of cutting oil. Haven't had the problem since. Seems he was right in my case. _____________________________________________________________________ "I have the Power thing down, it's the Speed and Accuracy that give me problems" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 I just got to measure mine and they are 0.038" thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 I occasionally had the same problem in my 4" 625-8 Model of 1989. I read on this forum something about 625's sometimes having one tight chamber: I think Mike Carmoney said it. Anyway, I rented a Clymer reamer from a company in Montana. I have machine tool experience so I did it myself; by hand, slowly with plenty of cutting oil. Haven't had the problem since. Seems he was right in my case. Yeah, actually most 625-8s have not one, but six tight chambers! I think S&W must be trying to get extra mileage out of their worn-out tooling or something. Anyway, the solution (and yes, it will probably solve the problem originally posed by Gregor in the first post above) is to re-ream the chambers to correct SAAMI industry spec. Then the moonclips drop right in, and the cylinder closes nicely every time! I do it automatically on every 625-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennRasch Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I recently aquired a S&W 625-3 Model of 1989 .45ACP 4" revolver. I have looked over the archives of this site and decided to become a member here due to the extensive knowldge on .45 ACP moon clipped revolvers. The revolver binds the cylinder rotation when moon clips that are thicker than .039" are used. The cartidge heads and moon clips drag on the recoil shield. In some cases, the cylinder cannot even be pressed into the frame window, the fitment is too tight. I have read that some of the 625-3's have a "tighter" tolerance chamber that my cause the ammunition to not fully seat into the chamber, sticking out the rear of the cylinder. I bought some Winchester White Box and Remington UMC 230gr. FMJ Hardball factory to try but the binding issue still occurs. I received two batches of moon clips, fat ones and thin (.039") ones. I need to know the following: 1. Why are there two thickness moon clips available for .45ACP revolvers? 2. What company manufactures moon clips in the .039" thickness? 3. What information can be offered to sort out the ammo/clip issue. I appreciate any information offered. Regards, Gregor I use the TKCustoms in all my guns..........there a little pricey , but they are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraizer15 Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 I have 2 625's, a 625-3 (1989) and a 625-8, and a supply of .048 moon clips I aquired in the 1990's. .048's work in the 625-8 but not in the 625-3. I am currently clamping the .048 moon clips to a piece of angle iron and grinding off about .005 and finishing on a belt sander. This seemed to have fixed my 625-3 clip problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMM50 Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) 0.48 is absolutely too thick. Edited September 8, 2022 by GMM50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraizer15 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 I agree, but why do I always do things the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 12 years ago I had about 100 moon for the 625 . All kinds, to cheep to grind them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 4 hours ago, fraizer15 said: I agree, but why do I always do things the hard way. Makes for interesting times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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