Talk me out of an 18.9 LDA for production

[Revopop]

I ran across an older Para 18.9 LDA pistol, it's old enough that it doesn't have the goofy extractor, and it's cheap. Also, CDNN has mags for $30 apiece. I did a search, and most people seem to think that the reason the LDA never took off in Production is cost & long trigger reset. Well, this one is old & kinda beat up, so the price is about the same as a new Glock, & I'm primarily a revolver shooter so I don't think the long reset will bother me. I like the idea of a big heavy 1911ish gun for Production, & it'd be nice to load the mags up all the way for 3 gun. Anybody got a reason why I shouldn't go for it?

[wanderer]

Anybody got a reason why I shouldn't go for it?

it's a para

[furyalecto]

Anybody got a reason why I shouldn't go for it?

it's a para

That's the reason he should.

I would see how you like the trigger on it if possible.

[Adam B]

the trigger pull is a mile long every time you pull the trigger and loading mags in them fast is like sticking a round peg in a square hole

[sfinney]

+1 to Adam, reloading Para mags without a magwell is challenging, at speed. If that doesn't bother you, and you like the looonnng reset being a revolver guy, the only other comment I've heard is that the internal mechanism of the LDA trigger is pretty delicate and complicated, and not easy to work on.

Some people can tune them to have shorter resets, but that database of knowledge is pretty small, you will have to take it to someone.

Now, on the plus side: Its a 1911 platform and points and handles like one.

[Beretta Lover]

I would say if you get a deal on one and you want to try it out why not?

If its used it might already be reliable and proven. Other than a new recoil spring it could be good to go. If you end up ever needing a new 9mm extractor I would see if Brazos custom gun works had a pre tuned 9mm extractor.

if its a 3 gun pistol, fitting in a box doesnt matter so you can bolt a dawson magwell on it with an extended floorplate on it

WIth practice they can be reloaded very quickly

the idea of a good deal and curiosity alone would be interesting

[Beretta Lover]

I meant the mags for the para can take a dawson mag bottom

[Avezorak]

I shot a 18.9 the other day in a match. I love Paras and the LDA in particular. I wont shoot it in Production again because, like was mentioned above, the reset is a mile long and I just cant shoot it as fast as I would like to. I didnt have a problem with the reloads but I dont like the 10 rd mags this gun had with it. The trigger is a bear to get right but it can get pretty good if you dont mind the reset. I say try it and see if it works for you. It is a 1911 after all....

[Revopop]

Anybody got a reason why I shouldn't go for it?

it's a para

See, I don't equate Para with crappy, I think largely because of the gunsmith at the first club I ever shot at. He's a crusty old salt, & I do mean old, if he's not 80 yet he's damn close. He's been working on Para guns since back when they were frame kits, & he's a helluva gunsmith. Consequently, there was only 1 guy shooting a 2011 at that club, everybody else shot Para Limited & Open guns and they all ran like raped apes. I've never hesitated to consider Para because I know a good gunsmith.

[bubbadoc]

If you have access to a good Para smith then.... buy the GUN!!!! Seems like the issues brought up about the 18-9 you have addressed in that as a revo shooter you are used to a longer trigger pull and you know a smith for a 'just in case' issue.

If the pistol is old and a little beat up to me that means that it runs so has been shot a lot... which means there shouldn't be a major issue with it... just possibly some TLC needed on springs, etc in it.

[Bearcave]

For mags don't but from CDNN if they are 38super/9mm. They will not run right in a 9mm.

Para makes a 9mm only mag part number PNM9 and they are nickel. Brownells stock them under this number.

[rhgunguy]

One good reason not to:the 'smith in question built a normal 18.9 for limited minor and I have never seen it run right. Sometimes its a mag problem, sometimes its a gun problem, sometimes it doesn't like the reloads, most times its a combo of 2 or more things.

[TonyT]

Aside from the long trigger reset, similar to that of a revolver, my PO 18-9LDA has been totally reliable and very accurate - 1 inch groups @ 25 yards with a factory barrel and virtually any ammo I have put through it.

[ronswin]

If the P18-9 in question does not have the Power Extractor then it's probably a decent used pistol at a good price. The PXT extractor is the only issue I've had with my P18-9 and the trigger reset is really no worse than some popular DA auto pistols (i.e. Glock). The P18-9 is very accurate, will shoot anything including Wolf steel case and has zero recoil due it's bulk. Personally, I don't see the issue with seating the magazines into the magwell, but then I'm old and slow.

RonSwin

[ParaGunner]

Did the OP ever get the pistol?

[Flexmoney]

Gunsmith and Production rules...might not go together. Be sure.

[G-ManBart]

and has zero recoil due it's bulk.

If that were true, everybody would be using them

[Krag]

I got a 18.9 LDA several years ago to use in an article and fell in love with it. I has replaced various plastic pistols and Berettas I used in Production. Within six months of using it I moved from C class (where it seems I had been forever!) up to B class.

I love 1911s (I shoot a Para 16.40 in Limited and L10) and feel the 18.9 is one of the most practical Production guns out there. It feels just like my 16.40 and, as an old revolver shooter, I love that long, smooth trigger stroke.

It runs with anything I can fit into the magazine, including super light steel loads, shoots better than I can and I have no trouble doing reloads with that wide open mag well.

My 'smith polished the action and removed the firing pin safety and the trigger stroke is even smoother and lighter now.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Krag

[sfinney]

My 'smith polished the action and removed the firing pin safety and the trigger stroke is even smoother and lighter now.

Missing the Firing Pin Safety, that gun is now illegal for USPSA Production.

[Duane Thomas]

As well as IDPA as a whole.

[Krag]

Do tell? OK, I'll put it back in. Thanks. I guess my 'smith is just so used to doing that on competition 1911s it's SOP for him.

Have you ever wondered that if they examined all "Production" pistols before a match what percentage of them would be disqualified???

I asked that at a GSSF match once and was told (unofficially of course) that if they did that most of the really good shooters wouldn't show up. LOL

Edited August 17, 2010 by Krag

[guzziguy]

I have been shooting a p18.9 LDA for a couple of years. It is a Limited. It shoots great. I am an old trvolver shooter and I think this is a great gun. And you can shoot as a production gun and load 10 rounds, or you can shoot it as a Limited minor if you want and use the 20 round mags loaded to capacity. Great fun either way.

[tobin]

Anybody got a reason why I shouldn't go for it?

it's a para

Be careful with Para's. They were very popular where I come from but too many parts breakages and slide/frame issues have caused most to let them go.

[Duane Thomas]

and the trigger reset is really no worse than some popular DA auto pistols (i.e. Glock).

Actually the trigger on the LDA is considerably different than on a Glock - and, I would have to say, considerably worse. I actually consider the trigger action one of the Glock's great charms. Not only is the actual reset distance pretty darn short in the overall scheme of things, but it's one smooth movement forward, click! the trigger resets, and at that point there is NO reuptake travel, you're ready to go again instantly. With the LDA, not only is the overall trigger reset distance much longer, but it's a two-stage reset, i.e. you have two perceptible clicks (you can both hear them and feel them) as the trigger returns forward. The trigger is not actually reset at the first click, you have to let it go all the way out to the second click. Unfortunately if you're habituated to resetting on something like a Glock or a 1911 where as soon as the trigger clicks you're good to go, and you stop your trigger finger's forward movement as soon as you feel the trigger click and begin pulling in the opposite direction, there is a very real tendency to shortstroke the trigger, you're standing there pulling the trigger and nothing is happening. At which point you have to sort of mentally regroup and let the trigger out all the way....at which point you have a mile of reuptake travel. The trigger on the LDA is immensely inferior to something like a Glock.

Bruce Gray, who in addition to being a high Grand Master is a wonderfully talented and hugely experienced pistolsmith, reports to me that the LDA mechanism is too fragile to stand up to heavy use, i.e. the sort of high round count and dry fire practice regimen that a serious competition shooter puts on a gun. Also, frankly, he's not a fan of Paras in general. He said to me, on the topic of Paras, "They just don't have it." My reply, "Okay, I'm willing to take your word on that, but what is this 'it' they just don't have?" Him: "Fit. Finish. Metallurgy. They don't have it."

Reloading a Para fast is hard. The top of the magazine is very bulky and squared-off. The mag well opening is likewise very squared-off and comparatively quite tight. I heard Todd Jarrett at one of the Factory Gun Nationals use the "like trying to shove a square peg into a round hole" analogy to describe speedloading a mag funnelless Para, and estimate that taking the mag funnel off his gun cost him about 50 points in a match. And this is from the guy was (1) sponsored by Para at the time, (2) is pretty generally recognized as having the best speedload in USPSA.

Would I buy a Para P18.9 and use it as a Production gun? No, I would not.

[fastarget]

Bruce Gray, who in addition to being a high Grand Master is a wonderfully talented and hugely experienced pistolsmith, reports to me that the LDA mechanism is too fragile to stand up to heavy use, i.e. the sort of high round count and dry fire practice regimen that a serious competition shooter puts on a gun. Also, frankly, he's not a fan of Paras in general. He said to me, on the topic of Paras, "They just don't have it." My reply, "Okay, I'm willing to take your word on that, but what is this 'it' they just don't have?" Him: "Fit. Finish. Metallurgy. They don't have it."

That is a whole lot of negative from a top notch shooter and gunsmith, I was doing a search on LDA and read this thread ....

I was thinking of an LDA for SSP, but I prefer a high quality, high reliability gun. Anything else one should look at with 1911 like controls, but DA/SA or DA that would fit in that IDPA class?